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Author Topic: Grooming excuse?? Brattina88 Junior Member Member # 525 Member Rated: posted January 14, 2004 04:16 PM                I was just wondering if anyone else had this problem... I have a Cocker Spaniel that goes in for professional grooming whenever I think she needs it. I groom her and touch her up at home all the time, I brush her out all the time because she enjoys it and its *qaulity bonding time* for the both of us Because of this she's never had a mat in her life lol but this is the second time I've taken her to the groomers and they shaved her completely down, despite me talking to them so they understood what I wanted. When I complain, they say that she was too matted and there was nothing else they could do, but I KNOW this isn't true! Don't they know its cold outside?! Posts: 24 | From: Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004 Dawn Moderator Member # 14 Member Rated: posted January 14, 2004 04:18 PM                The exact same thing happened to me!!! They shaved mine and my mom's poodles. It had been almost a year exactly since mine had had surgery and her legs had just grown back in to a respectable length. I've never been so mad. Plus they insisted that we pay above the normal price. This was at the very beginning of December. So they've been freezing. Posts: 428 | Registered: Nov 2002 Kimmer Junior Member Member # 455 Rate Member posted January 15, 2004 05:12 AM                I've been a groomer for 10 years now and I'm going to try to clue you in on something. Owners may THINK they have the dog brushed out. I've seen it a million times. If you can get a COMB through the dog's coat from the skin all the way out to the tips of the hair then the dog is brushed out. When you bathe a dog at home and there's tangles in the coat then you make them worse and they tighten up. And I've seen owners just brush out the top layer and then whine and moan when I have to take the dog down short. If you want the dog's coat to be left long (because I'm not in the business of torturing an animal for aesthetic reasons) then be more vigilant with the brushing and/or bring the dog in to the groomer REGULARY so that we can take care of it. I'm tired of being blamed for the owner's neglect of the animal. Kimmer Posts: 9 | From: Southwestern US | Registered: Dec 2003 Lucky Puppy Member Member # 174 Rate Member posted January 15, 2004 08:54 AM                Good Point Kimmer. I have a Great Pyrennes/Wolf Mix. Often times his top coat 'looks' groomed but when I start brushing I there are matts lying underneath them. He is such a big dog, 120 lbs with alot of hair it's an ongoing daily job. The best way to keep a handle on it is to have regular professional groomings and daily mini groomings. -------------------- Love Me, Love My Dog! Posts: 52 | From: California | Registered: Aug 2003 Dawn Moderator Member # 14 Member Rated: posted January 15, 2004 09:02 AM                I realize that happens, and I'm not sure with the top post. I know that mine wasn't though. She gets very aggresive when she has matts, so we have to be very diligent with her grooming. I have taken her to the groomer to get a matt out before that we just couldn't. Posts: 428 | Registered: Nov 2002 Brattina88 Junior Member Member # 525 Member Rated: posted January 15, 2004 09:48 AM                I understand what your talking about, but this is not the case with my dog/s, and I'm deffinatly not blamming you for anything, Kimmer. Maybe you're a great groomer, but that doesn't mean all groomers are. I talked to another groomer that I used to take my dogs to before we moved and she was telling me about how she's heard bad things about the groomer that I was originaly talking about - the one who shaved my dog down. Now maybe she just wants me to come back to her for bussiness, but I KNOW that my dog wasn't matted. Posts: 24 | From: Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004 KiKi Junior Member Member # 259 Rate Member posted January 16, 2004 12:38 PM                I think Brattina88 and Kimmer are both correct. Having owned a cocker spaniel for 8 years. I have experience with this same issue. I had a groomer who would always shave mine down to the bare bones almost everytime, saying she was too matted to keep long (even though I know she wasn't). I got very frustrated and switched groomers. The new groomer did explain to me that I needed to make a committment to bring my dog in every 5-6 weeks and we would probably be able to keep her looking like a cocker. Well, I did as asked and she never got shaved down to the bare bones again. It did cost a little more bringing her more ofter. However, it was well worth it. Also, My cocker had a silky coat which was prone to matting more than coarse coats. [ January 16, 2004, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: KiKi ] Posts: 18 | From: Aliquippa, PA | Registered: Oct 2003 Karlie 85 Junior Member Member # 434 Rate Member posted January 16, 2004 02:11 PM                I have been a groomer for 2 years and have experienced alot of owners claiming the dog wasn't matted, but when you get working on him your realize he really is. But even if the dog is bad enough that you have to shave him. I NEVER would until I have talked to the owners and they have agreed that is the best thing for their pet. Then if you explain that if they start bringing the dog more regularly he won't have to be shaved next time. I have found most of the time, (unless the dog is really matted) You can just cut the mat out and save the rest of the dog or you can work the mat out(leaving no evidence there ever was a mat) then you can charge a little exta for your extra time spent on him. Karlie -------------------- :) Dog Groomer Posts: 14 | From: UT | Registered: Dec 2003 LoriAnn Member Member # 385 posted January 17, 2004 06:00 AM                I see this a lot as well. However I would NEVER shave a dog down until I've contacted the owner-I wouldn't have very many customers left if I didn't. Sometimes the type of brush you use isn't right for your dog as well. A slicker brush works well for dogs that don't have a real fine silky coat. A pin brush is better for those that do. Personally I'd rather leave a longer coat than do a complete shavedown any day. A shavedown is more time consuming. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I can't understand why a groomer would take the time to shavedown a dog they didn't have too. If this is all they know how to do, I'd get a new groomer. I've gotten in the habit of carrying a comb in my pocket when I greet new clients & clients that come in every 6 months & want a long flowing coat. I run it through with them right there. That way if there is matting I can show them before they leave the dog. [ January 17, 2004, 06:01 AM: Message edited by: LoriAnn ] Posts: 80 | From: Indiana | Registered: Nov 2003 goombaya Member Member # 545 Member Rated: posted January 17, 2004 04:26 PM                no excuse for a groomer shaving a dog that you asked not to be shaved. if the dog was matted they should have worked on it as best they could or called you prior to having to clip. ive had horror stories with groomers that dont have a clue about what they're doing. When you find a good one that listens, keep going to them, if they move follow them. As a rule , i wouldnt let a groomer from any of those chains, petsmart etc etc do anything other than bathe the dog. Many of them are not career people just kids being paid minimum wage. Stick with private groomers that have their own shops- if they have any experience with showing dogs -even better Posts: 129 | Registered: Jan 2004 Dawn Moderator Member # 14 Member Rated: posted January 17, 2004 04:39 PM                Well, our private groomer is the one that keeps shaving them. She has a woman that works with her a couple of days a week to help out. Her main job is at petsmart though. She's the one that does a good job. Personally, I would rather have them groomed at a chain, as long as they'd been working there for awhile. If they've been there awhile, they must be doing something right. Posts: 428 | Registered: Nov 2002 goombaya Member Member # 545 Member Rated: posted January 17, 2004 04:44 PM                dawn the problem with your theory about chains: if they work their a long time they must be good: If they were good they would work elsewhere for more money. A good groomer with a dog background can earn alot better living than working at petsmart. More typically you'll find kids working there. If you have someone that works there and is good, than by all means keep going back. ive gotten my dogs back dirty from chains on several occassions, they did however have nice bandana's on - i guess that masks the poor job done. Posts: 129 | Registered: Jan 2004 Dawn Moderator Member # 14 Member Rated: posted January 17, 2004 05:17 PM                You could also look at it that they are guarenteed to get paid at a chain and they're guarenteed costumers. Really depends on your point of view. Posts: 428 | Registered: Nov 2002 LoriAnn Member Member # 385 posted January 18, 2004 04:59 AM                I have a few friends that either work or are still working for Petsmart. The ones that are still there are there because they make a decent wage, better than min., and because they offer great benefits. The ones that aren't are because of corporate junk mostly, they are a big co., so their priority is the bottom line, not the people that work for them. The good groomers probably have had a good trainer & good managers. You will find a lot of younger people working there, because they get free grooming school (as long as they stay the contracted amount of time) & the manager is SUPPOSED to help them on the job after they get through training. Grooming schools are expensive & not on available in all areas like other trade schools. It really depends on each individual store like it does with independent groomers whether they are good or not. [ January 18, 2004, 05:01 AM: Message edited by: LoriAnn ] Posts: 80 | From: Indiana | Registered: Nov 2003 Lady_Bug Junior Member Member # 534 Rate Member posted January 20, 2004 08:35 PM                   I used to work for petsmart. I wasnt a groomer but I watched them work and saw dogs come in and leave. They always did a good job at the Albany one...and they werent all kids either. As a matter of fact...none of them were. Posts: 17 | From: New York | Registered: Jan 2004 Freckles Member Member # 281 Member Rated: posted January 22, 2004 05:58 PM                You never know when dealing with chains or private groomers.... PetsMart was great for the 4 levels of training Freckles had and she loved the training. But, I took her for grooming once maybe twice, and from then on she would absolutely refuse to let me leave her with the groomers. I mean big time... her eyes would even become bloodshoot at the thought. They all seemed really nice.... but, something wasn't right. She loved the training area, but don't get near the grooming area. I have taken her to her vet a couple of times (expensive!), so now she gets in the big stall shower with me! The nail clipping is something I put off as long as I can. Must find a place where she won't freak out. [ January 22, 2004, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: Freckles ] -------------------- Lou in Texas Posts: 122 | From: Southlake, TX | Registered: Oct 2003 Kimmer Junior Member Member # 455 Rate Member posted January 24, 2004 03:54 AM                Alot of dogs are scared when they go to the groomers. (and quite alot of dogs LOVE to come in, too) They shake, pull back on their leash and generally cause a scene when their owners drop them off. I know in my case this has nothing to do with the treatment the dog recieves when at my shop. I like to compare taking your dog to the groomer with taking your young child to the dentist. They hate it! We do alot of things to the dog that they really do not enjoy... clipping toenails, cleaning ears, forcing them to take a bath. Not all of this is pleasant stuff. And also, 99% of the dogs that freak out when mommy or daddy is there calm down the SECOND they leave. Dogs are alot smarter than we give them credit for. They know how to work the sympathy thing Kimmer Posts: 9 | From: Southwestern US | Registered: Dec 2003 Brattina88 Junior Member Member # 525 Member Rated: posted January 24, 2004 07:11 AM                I agree I dog sit sometimes and I have to say that dogs act different with there owners because when they leave the dogs change. My kid brother's principal has a chihuahua mix that is dog aggressive, but she babies him (he has a diaper bag FULL of stuff!) and brings him in to work. She almost got into BIG trouble because he snapped at one of the parents! I remember I had to watch him one time, and as soon as she left the room he was acting calmer, and less agressive. His owner told us that we had to feed him by hand or he would starve himself, but I woundn't. I set the bowl on the floor and he ate. I have three dogs and he didn't show any signs of aggression with them, but when "Mom" came back he started acting out again. It is the dogs who own us, because they know exactly how to get what they want. (I'm not sure if this relates to our gromming topic LoL!) Posts: 24 | From: Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004 Mikanik Junior Member Member # 584 Rate Member posted January 27, 2004 10:33 AM                kinda OT here, but I just wanted to defend big corporation pet store grooming salons. I got certified in grooming thru Petco and I can tell you that their grooming training program is mighty intense. You do sometimes have to be wary because at the store I work at there are only two of us that are certified...the other three were trained by watching groomers at the store. Now, they're not bad groomers, but they just haven't had the training I've had and I can definitely tell by the work they do (god...does that sound uppity or what?) -------------------- "The one absolutely unselfish friend that man can have in this selfish world, the one that never deserts him, the one that never proves ungrateful or treacherous, is his dog...He will kiss the hand that has no food to offer; he will lick the wounds and sores that come in encounter with the roughness of the world...When all other friends desert, he remains." - George G. Vest Posts: 7 | From: Ogden, UT | Registered: Jan 2004 Mikanik Junior Member Member # 584 Rate Member posted January 27, 2004 10:38 AM                I do agree that a dog should *never* be shaved unless the client has been contacted and has given the ok. If I can't reach my clients the dog just doesn't get done. When they come to pick up their dog I explain why and what steps need to be taken from then on. They're usually pretty understanding. -------------------- "The one absolutely unselfish friend that man can have in this selfish world, the one that never deserts him, the one that never proves ungrateful or treacherous, is his dog...He will kiss the hand that has no food to offer; he will lick the wounds and sores that come in encounter with the roughness of the world...When all other friends desert, he remains." - George G. Vest Posts: 7 | From: Ogden, UT | Registered: Jan 2004 goombaya Member Member # 545 Member Rated: posted January 28, 2004 06:49 AM                Mikanik, So at your store, 3 out of 5 groomers were uncertified trainess that did a lower quality job? I'll buy that. Hard to see how this is a defense of a chain- seems more like the root of the problem. Posts: 129 | Registered: Jan 2004 Dawn Moderator Member # 14 Member Rated: posted January 28, 2004 08:53 AM                She said they did a lower quality job. She didn't say it was bad. Most private groomers, at least around here, have had not formal training at all. So that is an improvement. You can also request specific groomers when you go. So if you want a certified one, you only have to ask. Posts: 428 | Registered: Nov 2002 Dena Junior Member Member # 590 Rate Member posted January 28, 2004 01:44 PM                About the discussion regarding groomers that are certified as apposed to apprenticed--I have to throw a little defense out! I started my grooming training at Petsmart...and I was there FOREVER, without anyone starting my training. As a matter of fact, the other bather that was there before me was still bathing, and she had been there over a year. So I apprenticed. Anyway, I found that the only way to become a good groomer is through experience, and most schools graduate students that may have the basics, but no experience, whereas an apprentice has to learn over a period of time. So, when someone is "certified", it does not necessarily mean they are better, and vice-versa. Honestly, I think the ranting in the grooming industry about trying to regulate groomers is just a way to make more money for that particular association. Becoming certified is a great thing, don't get me wrong, but it is not exclusive. Some un-certified groomers out there are VERY good! Posts: 4 | From: Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004 hunny518 Junior Member Member # 648 Rate Member posted February 10, 2004 12:49 AM                I just want to say that in order to be a good groomer you must have the gift. Its just like singing, you cant teach your voice to sound like celion dione. Going to grooming school will only help you perfect your gift if you have it. 2 1/2 years ago I applied for a job at a groom shop because i wanted to be a groomer. The groomer there hired me because i told her i wanted to be a groomer, she said she would train me i had no experience what so ever, after about a 1 year of being a bather she decided to send me to grooming school. After 6 mo of cutting hair she is amazed by me because she says I scissor better then many groomers who she has seen in the 22 years she has been a groomer and she is talking about people who have years of experience. I love my job and i try to find every which way possible to de-matt a dog before i shave it down. Of course my main priority is the well-being of the dog. I never shave the dog before talking to the owner, in fact we check our dogs in with the owner standing at the door, and we get our comb and show the owner the matts before they leave. Most of the time the owners act shocked that their dogs are matted. It turns out half of these people only use slicker brushes to brush out their dogs, they dont relize you need a comb as well. By the way I'm only 19 and most of you probably consider me as a kid, but I have the talent that many adult groomers will never achieve Posts: 6 | From: lakewood | Registered: Feb 2004 LoriAnn Member Member # 385 posted February 11, 2004 06:47 AM                Hunny-I have to agree with you, some groomers just don't have it & they get burned out very quickly. Honestly, I started out with just a home study course as there were no schools closer to me than 2 hours away. I apprenticed for 1 summer & found work in a vet's office. I've built a great clientle in a short time through word of mouth. Now, does it make me a better groomer to take a test & pay monthly dues to an association? I think not. Goombyah, I've had customers tell me "just do the best I can" rather than shave it. I refuse to groom the dog, because the best I can do on a matted dog is to rid the poor thing of the mats, & I'm not going to torture it by trying to pull them out for 2 hours. I can't bathe it, because the mats will tighten as they dry making it worse. If I can de-mat in an hour or less & they are willing to pay the price I will do it, otherwise it's shave it or go let another groomer tell you the same thing. I can't afford to have one dog take up all my time. Can you imagine having matted fur on your butt that pulls everytime you move? Would you want someone sawing through those mats & pulling on them? Most customers understand this, but there is always a few that insist they don't want their dog shaved. I figure if they won't take the time to take care of the dog they will either pay me the price to do it, or if it's too much for the dog have him shaved. Those who don't understand, I don't need as clients. Posts: 80 | From: Indiana | Registered: Nov 2003

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