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Author
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Topic: Prozac
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sambucca/whiskey
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posted July 08, 2004 09:26 PM
Well it has come down to Whiskey, my German Shepard/Collie/Blue heeler is looking for a new home, as I can not gain his respect after months of traing he still thinks he is alpha although subtle with me he lunges and growls at strangers.
I am currently looking for a new home for him in my area(within 1 hour drive), on a farm with a person or people with alpha like attitudes. So here is what I want to know.
Has anybody ever heard about giving a dog prozac for dominance aggression, are there common side effects and is this an ok treatment temporarily to keep the behavior from escalating until a solution can be found?
Posts: 246 | Registered: May 2004
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ellierat
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posted July 09, 2004 01:09 PM
Hi Sam, sorry you are still having problems, sometimes a big dog like yours just needs so much exercise and room it is the only course of action you can take. I hope you find a good home for him, it is painfull, I know, I had to give my Annie away a few months back.
I thought Prozac was a human medication to treat depression, I have heard a lot about this stuff on the news lately causing young people to commit suicide.
Talk to your vets, there are other medicinal options available for animals to treat behaviour problems.
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I love my labs.
Posts: 880 | From: australia | Registered: Feb 2004
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DaxAriel's toy
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Member # 740
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posted July 09, 2004 05:38 PM
Have you tried going to one-one training sessions? A professional may be able to give you better pointers and certainly save you from having to give him away.
The books I finished reading "Surviving your dog's adolence" and "Problem dogs" have very very good exercises to enforce your alpha status. PM me if you would like me to send a couple of relevant pages to you.
The one that I spoke to Ariels trainer with was putting the dog in a DOWN/STAY position for an hour per day.
The writer states that it's not the issue it's the battle. Once you can enforce your dominance once the dog will "fall into line" with only minimal reminders.
If he's only lunging at strangers and not growling or bossing you around there is hope for him.
Posts: 748 | From: Edmonton AB Canada | Registered: Mar 2004
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sambucca/whiskey
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posted July 09, 2004 07:40 PM
Well dog lover seeing as you seem to have alot of resources at hand here you go, Whiskey lunges, barks and growls at strangers, he barks at me puts his mouth on me, trys to dominate me by putting himself on me (he is fixed), he snarls only at his muzzle, he has marked me three times in the last two weeks and I mean lifted his leg right up on me.
i have been trying to work through all but strangers since he was 7 weeks the only thing I have managed is to keep him from getting the psycho killer look out of his eye and snarling at me which is why I went to puppy school at 7 weeks ![[Frown]](frown.gif) . the stranger thing started about a month ago I had 5 days off all devoted to working through his issues all to no prevail.
Let me know what you think, and I will let you know what the vet says tommorow, yes I moved the appointment up, I just want to knnow if I can rehome him in good conciense although I am becoming doubtful, and what meds I can persue.
Posts: 246 | Registered: May 2004
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DaxAriel's toy
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posted July 09, 2004 08:24 PM
1) if he is dangerous you should not give him away. You only alternative is to have him put down.
2) What dominance exercises have you tried? This woman says the best & easiest is the DOWN/STAY. And to break his spirit (win) you must have him lie down for 1 hr per day until you release him. You can do this while watching TV. Everytime he moves you correct him and keep it up. Don't start at an hour but pick 5 minutes as a start (Use an egg timer so you don't cheat)
3) How much exercise is he getting. Real running not just walking. Is there an off the leash area you can go to perhaps where he can swim? I would go real early or find out when it's the slowest. See if you can hook up with another dog owner as a buddy system. Sometimes just having another human around will give you confidence.
4) Is he sleeping with you in your bed - banish him immediately. If he is crate confined during the day - fine; if not use it as a test of will. When Ariel was protecting raw meat bones - (she actually bite me twice) I would make her go into her crate and wait for me. Now she will respond to DROP IT no matter what because 9 out of 10 times her compliance means she will get it back plus some.
5) Are you afraid of him now - Does he know this? Your vet should be able to recommend a trainer. This won't be puppy classes anymore but someone who has experience in this.
6) For me - if my dog marked me, he'd get it back in spades. I'm not above collecting my own urine and marking him when I feel like it. Like when he's locked in his crate. I'm also not above tieing a bad dog to a tree and spraying him down with the hose to clean him. I'm also not afraid of inflicting a little pain - like grabing by the scruff of the neck with collar and hauling where & when I want them. Dogs respect brute force. You have the advantages of mechanical means to get it.
7) I routinely touch, kiss and even mild bites on top of Ariel's nose. This tells her I am the alpha. (never under the chin)
8) use a pinch collar and put it on as soon as you're home and remove it only when you are not with him and he is in his crate or room.
9) do not put food down for him. Feed it to him small bites at a time from your hand. This tells him you control this. If he jumps, growls, nips, NO MORE FOOD. Try again in an hour or so.
The two books I really really like are "Surviving your dog's adolescence" by Carol Lea Benjamin & "Dog Problems" Perhaps you can take them out at the library. They have funny and have many great tips in them.
Posts: 748 | From: Edmonton AB Canada | Registered: Mar 2004
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weimlover0816
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posted July 10, 2004 07:56 AM
sam, where are you located? I ask just because I remember a thread on a weimaraner message board last month. This woman adopted a male weim, and it turned out that he was very aggressive.. to the point of her female weim needeing 15 or so stitches in her throat! Well, this woman was so upset that she decided it was best to re-home her male. She sent him to the humane society, under watch of weim rescue. Anyway, she felt so bad that after a week she pulled the dog out. she had found this place north of Phoenix, AZ (she lives near there) that is a doggie boot camp.
Here is the part of the thread where she talks about what they do:
"spoke with my vet about it yesterday, who knows Trooper and his issues well, and she suggested a doggie boot camp up north of Phoenix, called Partners. So I spoke with them today and they had room for him. This place comes highly recommended for aggressive dogs like Trooper. He will be there for 3 weeks and then they will train me on what he's learned (a two hour class when I pick him up and then 8 additional classes, plus one in-home visit). Then Greta will go up there a week before Trooper gets out and they will work with Greta and Trooper together. Then Trooper comes home and Greta will stay for an extra week doing training and that will give me a week alone with Trooper at the house to work with him and begin to instill the new rules."
Don't know if this may be another option...I know how much you love whiskey, and want what is best for him. Maybe look in your area, or say where you are and maybe some of us here will know of somethign like this for you and whiskey..
Good luck to you
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"My Weimaraner is smarter than your honors student!"
Posts: 221 | From: USA-Maine | Registered: Apr 2004
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sambucca/whiskey
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posted July 10, 2004 12:11 PM
Well I am in Ontario, Canada. The lady I am seeing I found out is dog behaviourist/trainer/vet, so I am hoping she knows of these places can work with me on a one on one basis.
I am considering using meds until I have a concrete plan to keep his dominance from persisting/escalating.
They changed my appointment from today to tuesday as they had me booked with a reg. vet and think it is much more valuable to me to consult this woman.
Posts: 246 | Registered: May 2004
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sambucca/whiskey
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posted July 10, 2004 12:12 PM
Oh yeah and does it make any diffirence he is 100% submissive when muzzled?
Posts: 246 | Registered: May 2004
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ellierat
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posted July 10, 2004 02:56 PM
Check your pm
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I love my labs.
Posts: 880 | From: australia | Registered: Feb 2004
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ellierat
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posted July 10, 2004 02:59 PM
If he is submissive when muzzled it shows you something here. He knows how to behave, he knows you have control, He gives in to it.
I think you can work through with him, honestly.
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I love my labs.
Posts: 880 | From: australia | Registered: Feb 2004
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sambucca/whiskey
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posted July 10, 2004 03:11 PM
Thanks, I wondered about that he is absolutley nasty about having the muzzle put on and is getting better with that, but he really is miserable with the muzzle on he just drops to the ground if I am talking to somebody he lays between my legs, and they all look at me and say "ahhhh hes miserable with that on", I simply tell them well if he didnt he would have lunged and growled at you.
And fortunatley he has never bitten anybody I think partley because I dont allow that possibility.
I guess I'll hope I can get fool proof info from the clinic on tuesday, they said this woman is REALLY EXPERIENCED and the girl on the phone said they may be able to work through it because of his age.
Thankyou for the advice and GREAT pep talks I feel better than I did an hour ago already.
Posts: 246 | Registered: May 2004
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DaxAriel's toy
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posted July 10, 2004 05:13 PM
The muzzle tells alot. Maybe it's your behaviour when he has it on? Are you more confident and assertive because you know he can't bite you?
I hope you read the PM I sent you. I think he's still better off with you and I'm sure the trainer will help you out loads.
Ariel's a month behind Whiskey so I know that this is the time when they test you and test you again. Sometimes it's sudtle - like how gets to go down the stairs first - other times it's full blown war of the wills.
I'd be real curious on what the trainer has you do and what you think.
Posts: 748 | From: Edmonton AB Canada | Registered: Mar 2004
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BreeZy/sheltiepups
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posted July 10, 2004 06:00 PM
Umm I really don’t know anything about this but I was wondering would a gentle leader do the same thing for him as a muzzle? I mean would he respect it the same as the muzzle? I know you’re probably really busy trying to work this out; I’m just really carious as to the answer.
Thanks
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this is your life, is it everything you dreamed that it would be
when the world was younger and you had everything to lose
Posts: 147 | From: PA | Registered: Oct 2003
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sambucca/whiskey
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posted July 10, 2004 06:20 PM
No a gentle leader was a war on leash, I walk him on a prong as he doesnt respect my verbal corrections.
If you are just trying to guide a dog a leader is great but not much for dominance issues.
I did get your pm ellietrat thanks I will do everything they suggest and I can.
Dog lover thank you for all the great info in your pm i did save it and will pick up the two books you suggested as soon as I know I can afford them lol little cash strapped fter shots, surgery, muzzles, collars, leather, leads. training you get the ide lol, and you are right I am a single 21 yr old female.
Posts: 246 | Registered: May 2004
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DaxAriel's toy
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posted July 10, 2004 09:16 PM
Thought I'd share this with you (same boat and all). Wednesday morning I take Ariel & Dax for their daily morning walk. It's usually less than 1/2 hour before I go to work.
Well Ariel is trying to get Dax to play. Her version of please is grabbing Dax's tail and biting and/or pulling on it. Well Dax had enough and corrected her with a bat and nice display of teeth (actually she's pretty scary when you see them all)
So Ariel gets miffed and decides I might want to play. Sneak attack right into the back of my left thigh. Full nip. Well she got correctly quickly and sternly.
The next day she decides to test whether it's no all the time or whether I was in a bad mood. I was ready for her. She knows it's no all the time now.
I have a beautiful bruise about the size of a small orange in the shape of her mouth.
AT this age they're always testing.
Posts: 748 | From: Edmonton AB Canada | Registered: Mar 2004
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sambucca/whiskey
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posted July 10, 2004 09:20 PM
well glad he knows better than that because I do bite back and I am not talking alove bit if he hurt me with his teeth it is only fair but he does shove the ball at me and the cat lol. i tell him to drop it once if he doesnt listen i ignore him until he drops it.
Posts: 246 | Registered: May 2004
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