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Author
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Topic: GINGER AND HER PUPPIES
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ellierat
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posted July 16, 2004 03:53 PM
O.K. I'm here, hope your over here too.
The diarrehea does it smell badly? I need to know this it is important.
Hang in there Andrea, you are doing fine, Are you tired? Are you pregnant?
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I love my labs.
Posts: 880 | From: australia | Registered: Feb 2004
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AndreaMoon
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posted July 16, 2004 04:24 PM
The poo does not stink at all. I just got them to eat well. A little milk came out of his nose but I pulled the bottle out right away. He isn't eating as well as he was (although he just did eat good)...you don't think their is milk in his lungs??? He is sleeping good. Yes, I'm tired and my house is becoming a mess! I'm 7 months pregnant. Sorry it took me so long to reply. I have to go take a shower because he peed all over me ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posts: 41 | From: IL | Registered: Jul 2004
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AndreaMoon
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posted July 16, 2004 04:25 PM
Oh, wanted to say, I went to see Ginger and she is doing very good. Mom is taking her to the vet tomorrow and has plans to get her fived in six weeks ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 41 | From: IL | Registered: Jul 2004
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ellierat
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posted July 16, 2004 04:40 PM
Yes I thought you would be getting pretty tired, and being pregnant this would not be easy.
Is there any chance of getting the pups onto their mum now, she should still have some milk, have you checked mums teats, make sure none are hard and hot. She is on antibiotics though?
Yes if milk came out his nose you just got some on his lungs. Wipe it off, do what I said in other post, then see if he will settle.
When you feed him next time do it more slowly, don't squeeze the bottle at all. Are you using the puppy bottle now? The poo, it is a good sign it doesn't smell, they will probably have it now for the next week or so, if it gets runny or starts to smell, off to the vet no hanging about. That is the grains will dissapear it will go bright yellow and stink.
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I love my labs.
Posts: 880 | From: australia | Registered: Feb 2004
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AndreaMoon
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posted July 16, 2004 04:52 PM
Yes, she is on anitibiotics. Does this mean no nursing? I did get a scale and weighed them this morning. He is 16 ounces, she is 10 ounces. Going to eat supper.
Posts: 41 | From: IL | Registered: Jul 2004
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ellierat
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posted July 16, 2004 04:52 PM
Listen, don't even think about the questions you ask, I am just so happy to be able to help you.
No I'm not a vet, so the more technical stuff I'm no good at, but puppies, well that's another story, my parents started showing and breeding when I was 24, I am now 43, so we have been doing this for years, gosh am I that old!!lol.
I just had 2 litters of Labrador puppies a while back, I am experienced right, you would think I could tell right, well Sophie tricked me, don't know where she had them, but one morning I got up and there she is, in a pen, with another dog, carrying round a dirty, tiny, black puppy. So it happens, Ginger tricked all you the same way. Sophie had 8 puppies, 1 died, it was born with all this grey mucus in the bag, looking at it I would guess it was dead a while and started to decompose in the uterus. Sophie is now spayed.
You will get to know me quite well, I am actually a happy go lucky person, but have not shown through in this post because I take what is happening with you seriously. Go check out some of my other posts if you like, you will see pics of my dogs and their puppies.
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I love my labs.
Posts: 880 | From: australia | Registered: Feb 2004
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ellierat
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posted July 16, 2004 04:57 PM
Sorry crossing posts here, yes you can still put them on her, so long as she hasn't mastitis, you can tell, squeeze a little milk from her teats, it will come out thick and yellow if she has.
Otherwise it will be a watery white color.
Try putting them on her for a little while if you can, it will help them to learn to suckle properly.
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I love my labs.
Posts: 880 | From: australia | Registered: Feb 2004
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AndreaMoon
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posted July 16, 2004 05:39 PM
The way you're helping me is just awesome. I couldn't have done this without you and the others that have helped. That is so funny that you walked out and saw Sophie with a puppy! I bet you were stunned-lol. Yes, I think it would be easy for this to happen. Of course with Ginger she was carrying 13 puppies, don't know how that could be missed ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) And she is small for a Golden. Your dogs are beautiful. I love the chocolate puppies. We're going to go over and try to get the pups to eat off Ginger.
Posts: 41 | From: IL | Registered: Jul 2004
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ellierat
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posted July 16, 2004 05:45 PM
o.k. will wait to hear how you went.
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I love my labs.
Posts: 880 | From: australia | Registered: Feb 2004
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AndreaMoon
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posted July 16, 2004 06:21 PM
No milk. Her teats are swollen and very very hard. I didn't know this but Mom said the vet gave her either a shot or pill to dry her up. ![[Mad]](mad.gif) That was pretty stupid.
Posts: 41 | From: IL | Registered: Jul 2004
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ellierat
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posted July 16, 2004 06:26 PM
Oh, for heavens sake, this just keeps getting from worse to worse for you. Were her teats hot?
did you get any milk out at all. This is not on the lines of thinking the pups can go on, that is definately out now, I'm thinking of Ginger here.
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I love my labs.
Posts: 880 | From: australia | Registered: Feb 2004
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AndreaMoon
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posted July 16, 2004 06:32 PM
No milk at all. They were warm, not really hot. I think they are painful for her though. Some are just huge looking but still nothing would come out.
Posts: 41 | From: IL | Registered: Jul 2004
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ellierat
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posted July 16, 2004 06:59 PM
Try this first, Get a warm compress (warm facewasher will do), place it on the hard teats,
when it goes cool warm it up, you need to do this for about 15 mins, see if it reduces the pressure. see if you can just squeeze out a little of the milk. Don't be tempted to put a pup on, the milk will be bad.
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I love my labs.
Posts: 880 | From: australia | Registered: Feb 2004
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AndreaMoon
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posted July 16, 2004 10:21 PM
Tonight when we fed them we noticed that their noses were lookin black. Not dark black but a bruise color of black. What does this mean??
Posts: 41 | From: IL | Registered: Jul 2004
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AndreaMoon
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posted July 16, 2004 10:23 PM
Oh gosh, is it just turning black because it's getting older? ![[Blushing]](graemlins/blush.gif)
Posts: 41 | From: IL | Registered: Jul 2004
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AndreaMoon
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posted July 16, 2004 10:24 PM
Also, how important is it to burp them? Because I can't get them to.
Posts: 41 | From: IL | Registered: Jul 2004
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ellierat
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posted July 17, 2004 12:04 AM
No don't worry about that they don't burp like our kids, just stimulate them by wiping thier bums with a cloth, and rubbing their backs, they will normally do a poo or wee when you do this, so have them on a rag or towel.
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I love my labs.
Posts: 880 | From: australia | Registered: Feb 2004
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AndreaMoon
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posted July 17, 2004 07:10 AM
Ellierat, I think I am going to have to resort to tube feeding the girl. She will not suck, but not for lack of trying. It doesn't matter which nipple I use, she just can't do it. I don't know if she's too weak or what. And using the syringe is hard because no matter how hard you try it squirts out fast sometimes and I know this is dangerous. The only thing is, you said I can't tube feed after their eyes are open, right? So this will last for a few days and then we will have to deal with the bottle war again? You probably won't be on here for awhile ![[Frown]](frown.gif) If I'm going to do this I'm going to go to the vet and have him show me. (wonder how much that will be?) ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Posts: 41 | From: IL | Registered: Jul 2004
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AndreaMoon
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posted July 17, 2004 07:50 AM
How do I take the puppies temps?
Posts: 41 | From: IL | Registered: Jul 2004
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AndreaMoon
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posted July 17, 2004 12:47 PM
Ginger went back to the vet. She's doing much better. She does have mastitis though. She got some more antibiotics. Not sure about all the details. The vet gave me a syringe thing and it works much better than the other two I have. So I got her to eat pretty well. She isn't pooing though.
Posts: 41 | From: IL | Registered: Jul 2004
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ellierat
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posted July 17, 2004 02:21 PM
You will have to get the vet to take their temperatures, too risky for you to do it, has to be done rectaly, Why do you need to do it, are they sick? You can tube feed for as long as you need to, age doesn't matter, but you can't leave the tube in all the time. although, most times you only need to do this for a few days, the puppy is probably too weak to suckle. She will probably not make it, sorry. she is 5 days old now? if she is just laying listless all the time, not curled in a ball, flat out on tummy, she is really weak. The two pups should curl up together to sleep, it keeps them warm.
I am glad at least that your mum is taking some care of ginger, taking her to the vets.
Give the babies a big hug for me, by the way, what do they look like, colors, etc?
To get her to poo, rub her against the grain of the fur, ie: tail to neck, with a rough towel, like a massage, then rub her anus, she should go.
[ July 17, 2004, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: ellierat ]
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I love my labs.
Posts: 880 | From: australia | Registered: Feb 2004
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AndreaMoon
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posted July 17, 2004 02:56 PM
She's not laying listless. She curls up in a ball and they can't sleep unless they're touching, lol. And she wakes up to eat and sucks on my finger, etc. She whines when she's trying to eat but she doesn't whine excessively. She has ate about 5ccs in the last 3 1/2 hours. (that's not all she's at all day) From my calculations on the formula container she should be eating roughly 5ccs if I feed her every three hours. So she's on track right now. And with him, I'm actually concerned that he may be eating too much. I don't know if this is possible since we don't force him to eat, he eats what he wants. But he is getting very round. Right now I'm concerned with her because she will not poop. She hasn't all day. I just got through stroking her and rubbing her anus for about 15 minutes with no luck. I'm wondering if this could be contributing to her not wanting to eat much. I know I have the option to take her to the vet to get an enema but tomorrow is Sunday and none are open. Is there anything else I could try right now?
Also, I'm wondering about trying to make some puppy formula. Just because this formula seem very icky. I'm thinking maybe she would eat better if it tasted better. Also it's $20 a can so it would help if I made it. Here is a recipe for it, what do you think?
1 8oz plain yogurt (with live cultures)
1 jar strained baby beef (not junior)
2 egg yolks
2 cans evaporated milk
12 oz sterile water
Blend with blender then wait for bubbles to settle and stir. Use premie nipples. I found that it all wouldn't fit in the blender at the same time so I would blend all the ingredience except one can of milk and the water then I would add them in a clean container that I would put in the refrig. Warm enough for each feeding.
I also used this for weaning pups by adding regular adult kibble in the blender. I have told a lot of breeders about this formula over the years and all have had great success with it. It firms the stool and if the pups should get too firm, just increase the water in the formula.
There are some others I found too.
The puppies look like Golden Retriever puppies, I can't see anythign else in them. He is very stocky. His head is very wide, as is his body. She looks so tiny next to him. His fur is lighter yellow and hers is more of a golden brown. He has a white marking on the top of his head. I think they're especially adorable right now because their nose and paws are spotted pink and black. The black is taking over very quickly though. I wish I had a digital camera to show you guys some pictures. I have taken some but it'll be forever before they're developed. We also changed her name from Daisy to Duchess. So now we have Duke and Duchess which seems more fitting
Posts: 41 | From: IL | Registered: Jul 2004
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AndreaMoon
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posted July 17, 2004 03:00 PM
Here is another one:
Milk Replacer Formula:
10 oz. evaporated milk (whole fat or part skim -- do not use all skim) or goat's milk
3 oz. sterilized water (baby water or boiled water) -- delete if using goat's milk
1 egg yolk (raw)
2T regular mayonnaise (optional)
1 cup whole fat yogurt (whole fat or part skim -- avoid all skim)
Place all ingredients in a blender and mix (or use a wire whisk) till well blended. Use all formula within 7 days.
Warm formula to puppy body temperature before feeding. Always discard formula leftover at a feeding. This formula is thick and so is best administered by stomach tube. If using a bottle, you may need to enlarge the hole slightly. It provides 11 calories per cc.
Does anyone know if a cc and a ml are the same amount?
Posts: 41 | From: IL | Registered: Jul 2004
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ellierat
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posted July 17, 2004 03:11 PM
I would not go for a home recipe at this stage, there is not mention of vitamin supplements in there, also if you change all of a sudden you can give them terrible upset stomach, as you have only just got them on the go, you won't want to set them back again, it would be more problems than the cost of the tin of formula.
You will only have to feed them on this for another 2 weeks anyway, at 3 weeks of age you can start to wean onto solids. In about another 6 to 10 days their eyes and ears will open, they will start to try to walk, and will be able to hear you. That is really fun and cute to watch, your gonna love that part. Reward for all your efforts.
How is you little one handling all this, must be a good kid. When are you due? I forgot if you said before.
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I love my labs.
Posts: 880 | From: australia | Registered: Feb 2004
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AndreaMoon
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posted July 17, 2004 03:15 PM
Yeah, I wondered about the vitamins. My daughter is surprisingly not too interested in the pups which is good at this stage. I can tell though that she's a little jealous. I'm due in September. Any constipation ideas?
Posts: 41 | From: IL | Registered: Jul 2004
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