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Author
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Topic: dogs and horses
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Open_the_Gait
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posted November 20, 2003 04:08 PM
we have a australian shepherd/border collie who is always chasing the horses. he even bites at their ankles when he gets the chance, and hes really good at avoiding their kicks. we always have to tie him up if we want to do anything with the horses. he will get out of the pasture if i yell at him, but he cant resist it and will run right back at them. is it better to try to train him to stay away (which ive tried its really hard), or can i put a muzzle on him? do the basket muzzles allow a dog to eat and drink? i thought we could put it on for awile so later when we take it off he will think he cannot bite and so he will not try to. any advice? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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Dawn
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posted November 20, 2003 11:54 PM
They allow them to drink, but I doubt he'd be able to eat in it.
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Dawn
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posted November 20, 2003 11:54 PM
Actually it depends on the exact muzzle whether or not they can drink.
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fullhouse9873
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posted November 21, 2003 12:55 AM
Because your dog is Australian sheperd/border collie mix - he is inclined to want to herd animals (and other things if he can- my sisters aussie sheperd herds my kids). It would be very hard to break him of the habit. I would suggest tying him up when you're around the horses.
Posts: 247 | From: Jefferson, WI | Registered: Sep 2003
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lou3
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posted November 21, 2003 04:28 AM
A dog that isnt horse-smart - and by horse-smart i mean stays away from horses, knows when to run and when to move, and not to approach (esp not bite) any horse - has no place around a barn full of horses. Herding instinct cant be used as an excuse, my dad's trained sheepdog (border collie) never goes near the horses, when we take him in the field with us he just stays at a sensible distance, or plays with our other dogs well away from the horses.
I suggest either tying your dog up or not taking him to the barn at all. If hes biting horses either he is going to get kicked in the head or a horse is going to get a tendon nicked eventually.
Lou
Posts: 461 | From: uk | Registered: Nov 2003
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KiKi
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posted November 21, 2003 12:17 PM
I am inclined to agree with Lou. All dogs can and should be taught to obey, especially a herding dog. They're supposed to take their instructions when working in the field from you. If he continues to bite at their legs he's setting himself up to be hurt or worse... killed. My Shepherds aren't even allowed in the field with my horses. I realize the herding instinct is strong. However, it still needs to be brought under YOUR control. If you find that you can't get your dog to listen, please, for his own sake as well as the horses, tie him up. Better to be safe than sorry! And please don't take offence. I do understand how strong willed these dogs can be. Sometimes it's easier to just tie them up. Maybe working on your Alpha position will fix this for you. Good Luck! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[ November 21, 2003, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: KiKi ]
Posts: 18 | From: Aliquippa, PA | Registered: Oct 2003
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Dawn
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posted November 21, 2003 12:44 PM
Wouldn't it be great if you could do join up with your dog? Life would be so much simpler.
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Freckles
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posted November 21, 2003 06:11 PM
Have you considered some basic herding training? We have a border collie on the ranch that helps my sister-in-law hold the cattle while she works her cutting horse. She responds to her signals and has good "cow/horse sense" to avoid the hooves when called upon to settle the herd. If she doesn't need her to work the cows she just tells her to stay and she does not move. The instinct is there in the breed and usually easily channeled into constructive working behavior. It is a joy to watch a trained herding dog. Watching the coordination with the cutting horse, the cattle and the dog makes your heart sing. Nearly all the cutters on the circut have dogs and they are no problem with the horses or the cattle. --just takes training.
Now our border collie/red heeler mix, Freckles, is another story! She has the instincts, but since we only want her as a house pet and pal her training has been strickly 4 phases of obedience. But, as the trainer told us... don't ask her to do something that is impossible for her to do..... even the down/stay she is so good at just flies out the window if a cow comes at her..her ancestry just kicks into overdrive. So, when we are out and around the pastures she is on lead....we use a 50 ft. to give her some freedom, but we are able to reel her in if required. If she was going to be out and around a lot with the livestock I would definitey get her to a herding trainer so that she would respond to commands as a working dog.
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Lou in Texas
Posts: 122 | From: Southlake, TX | Registered: Oct 2003
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Open_the_Gait
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posted November 23, 2003 05:46 PM
Dawn that would be awesome! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
hmmm, join up.... i wonder.... ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
we usually do tie bingo up when we work the horses, but we dont want to have to tie him all the time. he is so 'horse-dumb' i dont know how he avoids being kicked, i cant even remember a time where he has been. hes been tied up alot more ever since he started giving one of the little foals dirty looks. i dont think he would actually hurt it, but u cant be too sure. anyways, the old dog is tied too cuz he usually takes the little pack out wandering a little, and we dont want him to do that during hunting season. 'boo-boo' has already been shot once! ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
i will work a little more on being the alpha. bingo is such a fun dog. i dont want them to sell him off away from the barn. he loves fetch of course, but he will also chase the end of a longe whip and jump really high to catch it, and he loves to jump on the trampoline with us (only he doesnt understand that he cant jump on us) i guess thats part of being a sheperd and us not being alpha. his brother jack used to live next door and he had an awful instinct for herding. jack would even chase the horses while we were riding. he would bite at their feet and noses. That was SCARY. they sold jack tho so we dont have to worry about him anymore.
everytime i go out to the barn i want to work with the horses not the dogs. but this winter i will set aside some time to help bingo. i dont want to train him to herd, cuz i dont want to do it wrong, and we havent got any use for it. but i will train him basic stuff so that he listens more readily. then maybe he wil be able to resist it and listen to us when a horse is feeling good and wants to run.
sorry for the long post
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Posts: 8 | Registered: Nov 2003
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Dawn
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posted November 23, 2003 06:35 PM
We have a german shephard at the barn that loves to chase the horses when you're lunging. She knows not to actually go in the round pen though, and she doesn't do it in the field. Personally, I think it's good for the horses. Most of the time, they'll charge at here and maybe buck a little, but eventually they get used to it. Now, if she were to actually try anything more than that, she'd have it. And she doesn't do it while you're riding.
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lou3
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posted November 24, 2003 08:30 AM
see thats what i mean by "horse-smart" knows to stay on the other side of a fence or at a safe distance. Sounds like a good dog.
Lou
Posts: 461 | From: uk | Registered: Nov 2003
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weezie
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posted December 25, 2003 10:10 PM
I know it sounds abit harsh but you should try an electric shock collar.
It does not hurt the dog it just reminds them to do the right thing as long as it is used corectly.
I hope it helps
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Weezie
Posts: 8 | Registered: Dec 2003
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bearsmom
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posted December 28, 2003 12:05 AM
I don't think that you can train herding out of all dogs. We had a blue heeler who never, ever got past heeling our horses. The horses ended up with bloody heels from her. She was quick enough that she escaped injury.
She knew she was supposed to leave the horses alone, but she just couldn't do it. We worked with her for about 5 years, and nothing worked. Other than that, she was a very well-trained, obedient little dog, except when it came to heeling the horses. We had sheep in the fields next to the house, and she never bothered them in the least.
My old border collie, on the other hand, has never been interested in horses. I think he might be a little bit intimidated by them. I think that's a difference between cow dogs and sheep dogs. Cow dogs seem more fearless. Or maybe it's just reckless!
The only thing I can recommend is to do your best to keep the dog away from the horses. If it's tying him up or using a muzzle, that's what you're gonna hafta do.
Good luck!
Posts: 90 | From: Oregon | Registered: Dec 2003
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Dawn
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posted December 28, 2003 09:10 AM
I don't agree with that. Herding dogs are the smartest section of dogs. No you can't train the herding out of them, but they absolutely can be trained to herd only when directed to.
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Freckles
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posted December 28, 2003 04:17 PM
I totally agree with Dawn. It is a lot of work, takes patience, consistency, and concerted effort to establish your position as head-honcho (alpha in dog terms). Some breeds are perfectly willing to give you that position. However, working/herding/shepherding dogs are bred to be alpha in their work and they do not give it up without a struggle. It is the channeling of these outstanding qualities that is imperative... and they can be! It is our failure to be responsible owners when problems arise. If you are not willing to put in the effort please think twice about these breeds as part of your life. They are soooooo smart and it is very rewarding to see how they can actually reason through a situation if trained properly. It is so sad when people are paired up with a breed that is improper for their temperament or time available to be fair to the dog. I am struggling to contain myself after comments about murdering a dog because it is inconvenient. You can use all the euphemisms..shot, put-down, etc. It's killing plain and simple! But,I am not going to go there..... ![[Flaming Mad]](graemlins/flamingmad.gif)
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Lou in Texas
Posts: 122 | From: Southlake, TX | Registered: Oct 2003
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