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Topic: I hope my post does not anger anyone...
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doogie
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posted November 24, 2003 06:00 AM
BUT.... I have an 8 month old Golden Retriver that seems to have trouble listening and learning... I think she understands me - but chooses to do what she wants anyway. We've been working on all the normal stuff... NO BITE... DOWN... LEAVE IT.... Well, she doesn't do well with any of these - and I've been "training" her since she was 7 weeks old now. The last straw happened last Thursday. My neighbor came over with her 2 yr old daughter and GG (my dog) was racing around and jumping up on them... she knocked the 2 yr old to the ground... then started "play biting" her - by that, I mean that my puppy was not really biting her... but just playing and nipping. The 2 yr old was VERY scared... was crying... and GG would not stop! I had to pull her off! Well... needless to say, I was pretty mad. I jumped in the car and went to the local pet shop and bought a remote trainer. For any of you who do not know what this is, its a collar that the dog wears and you have a remote... when the dog misbehaves, you press the button and the collar gives the dog a small "correction" charge. Now, it works on a battery, so you know it can't be generating much voltage or current. I have to say... she HATES the shock from this thing, and therefore, she is FINALLY starting to listen to me! She was play-biting my hand yesterday... I told her NO... she continued... I hit the button! She hasn't tried to do that since! She jumped up... I told her NO!... she continued... I hit the button! Since then, she didn't jump up on me once! This thing really works! I just thought I would share my experience...
Posts: 23 | From: NJ | Registered: Sep 2003
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lou3
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posted November 24, 2003 08:28 AM
These things can be useful but should NEVER be used on such a young puppy. I suggest you stop now and dont use it again until your dog is at least 18months old.
Posts: 461 | From: uk | Registered: Nov 2003
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doogie
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posted November 24, 2003 09:55 AM
Really? It didn't say anything like that in the manual... why do you think its bad?
Posts: 23 | From: NJ | Registered: Sep 2003
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doogie
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posted November 24, 2003 09:57 AM
I'll say one other thing... I brought my puppy to obedience class (to a professional) when she was just 12 weeks old - and the trainer put one on her back then!!! She didn't seem to think it was a problem.
Posts: 23 | From: NJ | Registered: Sep 2003
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Dawn
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posted November 24, 2003 12:27 PM
I would have to say that you should evaluate your training methods first. Although, she's not too young for one. At the younger age, she probably was. Also, if the child was there, why didn't you have her contained or on a leash?
Posts: 428 | Registered: Nov 2002
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doogie
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posted November 24, 2003 02:11 PM
See... that's just it! I don't feel I should have to contain her or leash her when she is in my own livingroom... shouldn't she be ok? I want her to be kind and calm... and she is not... I don't know how many times I can tell her "OFF" and "DOWN" when she jumps on visitors... I've told her 1000 times... I've rewarded her when she has behaved nicely... and put her in time out in her cage when she has not.... she just doesn't get it! But I can tell you... this is day two with this collar... and she hasn't jumped or biten anyone today!!!! I'm very happy to have a calm puppy now.
Posts: 23 | From: NJ | Registered: Sep 2003
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Dawn
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posted November 24, 2003 04:08 PM
I agree that you should not have to eventually, but if you know that she's predisposed to that type of behaviour, you should have been more proactive rather than reactive considering it was a small child.
Posts: 428 | Registered: Nov 2002
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fullhouse9873
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posted November 25, 2003 01:10 AM
Whenever we have company (small children or people who aren't used to the dogs) - we either keep both dogs on leashes - or put them outside. Especially at such a young age you can't expect her to be a dog that just lays on the floor when people come in (especially chidlren). Have you been working with amyone to help you train your dog? If not - I would reccommend getting some help. It can be a little overwhelming doing it yourself the first time. I have never used a shock collar on my dog - I feel that there are better ways to keep them under control. Eventually your dog will learn that the collar is hurting him - and once it comes off - he's going to misbehave (it happened to my sister's dog)
Also - I don't like using the crate as a time-out place for a dog. This should be their little area - their den. We made the mistake of putting our 1st dog in his crate when he was naughty - and he hated it. It took us a long time to get him to accept the crate agin.
Posts: 247 | From: Jefferson, WI | Registered: Sep 2003
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doogie
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posted November 25, 2003 04:35 AM
See... that is why you are supposed to do a few things (according to the MFG) 1. put the collar on and off the dog for DAYS in advance without even installing the batteries. 2. point the remote at the dog and press buttons... let him learn that this is not the source of the sensation. 3. once you activate the collar, the dog will not associate the sensation with the collar... my dog has NO idea where the sensation is coming from - on top of that - I leave the collar on all day - it seems to work great!
Posts: 23 | From: NJ | Registered: Sep 2003
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Dawn
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posted November 25, 2003 08:31 AM
Eventually, he's going to figure it out though unless you leave it on him 24/7. And you've got to think that you haven't eliminated the problem, you've only masked it.
Posts: 428 | Registered: Nov 2002
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doogie
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posted November 26, 2003 03:33 AM
No... thats not the case at all!!! I'm happy to report the collar worked perfectly! I only had it on her for 3 days... and the collar is now off and she is not play-biting or jumping or ANYTHING!!! I highly recommend this product! Thanx for all the input.
Posts: 23 | From: NJ | Registered: Sep 2003
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LoriAnn
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posted November 28, 2003 05:40 PM
I have an 8 month old Golden & she is 70lbs. Granted, she is on the bigger end of the scale, but I don't think this is a bad way to train a larger dog at this age. As long as you are following instructions & not over doing it, I say go for it! These things have gone down in popularity lately, but I commend you for getting in your car & buying the collar rather than dumping her or taking her to a shelter! Be patient, it takes most Goldens until about 18 months to really calm down, but it's worth it! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 80 | From: Indiana | Registered: Nov 2003
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fullhouse9873
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posted November 28, 2003 11:35 PM
I have 2 large dogs - and I think that it's important that they listen and respond to your commands because they want to - not because they're afraid of being shocked if they don't. There may come a time when you need to tell your dog to stop - and it won't have a shock collar on. It may stop, but it may not. I'm glad that it worked for you - but remember to continue with the training. With large breed dogs it's very important that they are well trained - as they can do a lot more damage than a smaller dog.
Posts: 247 | From: Jefferson, WI | Registered: Sep 2003
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bearsmom
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posted December 04, 2003 10:49 AM
Goldens and Labs are smart dogs who are known for their exuberant behavior as puppies. It takes 2-3 YEARS for most of them to calm down. I say most because some dogs are just naturally mellow. It sounds like you're expecting something that your dog's not wired to give.
Our old dogs (14 yrs) still get excited when visitors come over. They don't jump or try to play, but they get pretty wound up. My dog's always been extremely mellow, and he almost turns himself inside out when people come. If the dogs become over-excited, we remove them from the situation - lock them in the kennel, put them in the bedroom, whatever. Expecting an 8 month-old puppy to be calm is ludicrous.
You need to socialize your puppy so she gets used to people and knows how to act at all times, with or without your wonder collar. Take her in public, on a leash. We take our dogs to the farmer's market on Saturdays, and after just a couple of visits, they figure out what's up.
We immediately correct them when they do something that's unacceptable. It may be a stern/mean NO, a swat on the rear, stepping on their hind feet when jumping. The level of correction depends upon the offense. You only have 3-4 seconds to correct your dog. Beyond that, they have no idea why you're mad. That's why I don't believe in time-outs.
You don't want to take shortcuts with your dog at this stage of the game. You're teaching her how to relate to people for the rest of her life, and there's no substitute for time, patience, love, and CONSISTENCY.
Posts: 90 | From: Oregon | Registered: Dec 2003
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punkytail
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posted December 04, 2003 01:36 PM
You may think it's funny when I tell you how I trained my dogs.
With a package of "Hot Dogs", believe it or not my dogs, listen very well.
Just thought I would add my 2 cents in.
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Darlene Brownlee
Posts: 28 | From: las vegas, nv | Registered: Nov 2003
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bearsmom
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posted December 04, 2003 03:04 PM
I used cheese. It's amazing what they'll do for food (anything!).
Posts: 90 | From: Oregon | Registered: Dec 2003
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lou3
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posted December 04, 2003 04:01 PM
Dogs shouldnt be trained solely with food, especially not labs and retrievers. It often means they wont do as they are told whe nyou dont have food. You should try and train them so they never know when they are going to get a reward that way they obey the command every time - just in case.
Lou
Posts: 461 | From: uk | Registered: Nov 2003
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fullhouse9873
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posted December 05, 2003 01:22 AM
I agree with lou - I don't ever train my dogs with treats. They do something because they want to - and they look forward to a verbal praise. You can't have treats with you 24 hours a day - and if a dog responds to just your voice - you don't have to worry about searching for a treat to get them to do something.
Posts: 247 | From: Jefferson, WI | Registered: Sep 2003
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punkytail
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posted December 05, 2003 09:33 AM
I did it,when they were puppies,now they listen
without expecting a treat(that was with Cowboy),he's my Dachshund.
Jake on the other hand, he is very easy to train.Listens very well, no treats involved at all. I guess it's the Border Collie in him.
Posts: 28 | From: las vegas, nv | Registered: Nov 2003
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Dawn
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posted December 05, 2003 09:44 AM
Some breeds are more food responsive and some are more praise responsive. I think it's important to know which you have. Also, hotdogs are not the thing to use particularly with such a small dog, they are very high in sodium.
Posts: 428 | Registered: Nov 2002
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bearsmom
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posted December 05, 2003 04:38 PM
I used food with my Border Collie/Chow. He probably would have done fine without treats, he's so sensitive. I mainly used them when he was younger and needed a little help paying attention. After he figured out what I wanted, I quit using them all the time. Of course, I wasn't training him for anything like competition. It was mostly just fun tricks. He would do anything for a pet, but I thought he deserved a more concrete reward.
Posts: 90 | From: Oregon | Registered: Dec 2003
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Freckles
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posted December 05, 2003 09:16 PM
Hot Dogs! What a great invention for training dogs! What is it about them that they are so irresistable to the pooches? I am of the school that reward and praise are the kindest and more natural way to get results. Once the desired action has been captured and they grasp what you are asking the treats can be used just because you love them and for especially good responses to direction. I sure respond better (my treat of choice however is a Hershey with almonds). ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Lou in Texas
Posts: 122 | From: Southlake, TX | Registered: Oct 2003
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fullhouse9873
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posted December 07, 2003 03:05 AM
Speaking of hot dogs - just made me think of a funny. Last summer we took a family vacation out to Colardo. Before we left I cut up a bunch of hot dogs for my 1 year old to eat on the trip out (there his favorite). Well - of course - I forgot them - in the fridge.
We had a friend stay with our dogs well we were gone - so I called her and told her about some of the food in the fridge. She started laughing - she thought they were for my dogs instead of my kids! (She has two dogs that she used hot dogs for)
*But - back to treats - I did read that a good treat to give when training is a piece of the dog's kibble This way they're getting something good to eat. I still think my dogs like to be petted and told their a good boy.
Posts: 247 | From: Jefferson, WI | Registered: Sep 2003
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Freckles
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posted December 07, 2003 08:03 PM
Well, confession time.....We have one spoiled pooch!!! She gets food, praise, kisses, hugs, sleeps on the bed, goes everywhere in the car with us, (My husband even plans where we go by whether Freckles can go, too!!!) Everyone at Home Depot and the garden centers know "Freckles". She is very obedient (except when someone she knows comes to call!..she has special ones she just cannot contain herself with). Whatever a spoiled dog gets away with....in Spades! A flea market rescue at 6 weeks, at that! She will be 3 in February and I cannot tell you the love she brings into our lives. And she gets just about anything she wants! When she sits and gives you a "high-five" you just gotta love her. All our friends tell us that if they come back they want to come back as our dog. LOL I will admit a border collie/cattle dog mix is a challenge... but no amount of money could buy her.
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Lou in Texas
Posts: 122 | From: Southlake, TX | Registered: Oct 2003
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