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Author
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Topic: Messing Crate
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kwblue
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posted February 20, 2004 09:51 AM
Hello all,
I came across this forum and it seemed to be the only place where this question was being asked... I didn't find a solution, so thought I would ask it again in hopes that someone out there might have come across the same thing.
I have a 1 1/2 year old shepherd. She came from a rescue and was surrendered based upon a couple of things... The significant one here is messing her crate.
Even though we have had her on a routine of morning potty / noon potty / evening potty / before bedtime potty, she continues to mess her crate. We have significantly reduced the size of her crate to make sure that she does not have enough room to both mess and lay down and she still messes. She goes to the bathroom, but holds part of it in. It is easy to tell that she is doing it 'cause we watch her carefully when going potty. She takes as long as she wants as well to go potty (at least #2 - #1 comes fast, usually).
Since she messes her crate, she decides most of the time to 'get rid of the evidence.' However, there are times when she leaves it and other times when she traipses through it frantically splattering it inside and outside of her crate (wire crate).
Today, I am testing a routine of leaving her outside in her designated 'potty area' until she eliminates. It has now been 6 1/4 hours since she has 'partially' eliminated.... 6 1/4 hours since she ate a small portion (1 cup of food), and 4 hourse since I put her in the area to eliminate.
I don't know what to even do about it anymore. How can I solve the problem if she refuses to go? Very difficult to say 'gooooooooooood girl!!!!!' if there is nothing to commend.
Thanks in advance for the help
Andy
Posts: 8 | Registered: Feb 2004
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Amberlii
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posted February 20, 2004 12:46 PM
Do you have something in there for her to lay on? Usually, they won't go in the "Den". Especially if they are comfortable.
It sounds if you are doing everything right! You don't want the crate too big. Taking her out on a regular basis. Hmmmmm. Hopefully someone else can give you some advice here also.
Good luck with her! And hang in there!!!! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Bow Wow Beds
Posts: 91 | From: KY | Registered: Feb 2004
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ellierat
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posted February 20, 2004 03:50 PM
Hard to help without knowing a few more things.
What is her diet?
Sounds like constipation then diarrhoea.
Is she eating her poop, many dogs do it, not to hide evidence, they just do it.
Do you take her for walks?
How long is she crated per day?
Have you wormed?
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I love my labs.
Posts: 880 | From: australia | Registered: Feb 2004
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kwblue
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posted February 21, 2004 01:32 PM
More info...
She has been to the vet and has no health-related issues. She has been de-wormed.
We used to give her something to lay on, but she messed them and it gets too expensive. We began putting carpeting in there because it is about the cheapest material we could find since we were replacing it at least once a week. Now, there is nothing in there at all. Just the plastic tray.
Her diet is consistant. We typically give her 2-3 cups in the morning and at 5:00pm. Her schedule:
5:30 AM Potty
5:35 AM Feeding
7:45 AM Potty
8:00 AM Crate
12:00 PM Potty / Play Time
1:00 PM Crate
5:00 PM Potty
5:05 PM Feeding
5:30 PM Play Time
8:00 PM Potty
10:30 PM Potty / Bedtime
She only eats her poop when in the kennel, never outside. She is crated at most 8 hours per day. I don't think she is constipated because she physically 'cuts off' the pooping to hold some in. It is very easy to tell that she is doing this. Her food is IAMS, but I don't think that is the problem.
Anyway..... anything else to know?
Thanks!!
Posts: 8 | Registered: Feb 2004
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ellierat
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posted February 21, 2004 05:52 PM
My dogs will do at least 2 poops a day, sometimes three. What you will have to do is set up a new routine, revolved around HER poop times, try a good run/ball game first thing in the am. she should poop. Give her a bone to chew on in the crate, a nice marrow one, for boredom, she could be eating her poop because of that.
Place some newspaper in one corner of the crate, that is for poops, put a bit of poop on it so she knows, give her an old towel, or old piece of sheet to lay on.
Now your challenge, watch her for a day or two, note the times and situations which cause her to poop in the crate Ie: if your there-no poo, stay with the routine you have at the moment, and you will sure see where it's going wrong.
Also, boredom is the cause of a lot of undesired behaviour in our animal buddies.
hope it helps!!!
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I love my labs.
Posts: 880 | From: australia | Registered: Feb 2004
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kwblue
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posted February 23, 2004 06:06 AM
OK....
Here is the problem. We cannot revolve our lives around her poop schedule because she poops anywhere from 9:30am to 11:30am. We both have to work during that time. The only reason she is pooping during that time is because she refuses to poop outside when she has to. She plays hard with our other dog in the morning, so should definitely have to poop 1 1/2 - 2 hours after eating / playing.
As far as paper in the kennel, I have heard from all the experts that I have talked to thus far, that this is a very bad idea. I do not want to confuse her that it is ok to go in the house. She is 1 year 3 months old and is old enough to be able to hold it more than 4 hours at a time. It is not that we are not giving her enough time to get the job done..
I try to watch her to find out when / why, but she only does this about once a week at the most so there is no way to tell. We don't change OUR schedule with her, so I am not sure why she decides that she has to change hers.
Anyway, hope that gives more help.
Thanks in advance!
Andrew Mueller
Posts: 8 | Registered: Feb 2004
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ellierat
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posted February 23, 2004 02:03 PM
I realize the newspaper is not something that is recommended, and under normal circumstances don't advise it, but when it comes between poo and wee on your best carpet, and cleaning up over a multitude of areas sometimes it is far easier to go with the paper than not.
I look upon it as a whole new retraining exercise, not a permanent solution. Also Im not familiar with the term "crate", I assumed it was one of those that you use to keep your dog confined in when in the car at shows etc., obviously it must be larger. I am trying very hard to help you, give ideas, but i sense some anger behind your last reply, I understand that the prob. you have can be frustrating, but don't give up. Also sometimes you just will not be able to stop a bad habit and have to go with what suits your situation to make it easier. So if it paper in the corner, so be it, if she doesn't do it all the time, and while you are home you may not have any other way around it, other than to talk with the vets or an expert, I am only someone on the forum just like you, just that I have been breeding for 15 years, kept many of my pups, and bought in older dogs with the same prob. so I can only give advise on what I have done myself to try to fix it.
If you still want more ideas write back, maybe someone else may have some ideas to help here!!!
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I love my labs.
Posts: 880 | From: australia | Registered: Feb 2004
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kwblue
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posted February 23, 2004 02:57 PM
No.... Definitely no anger. Just expressing our schedules is all. I know there will be no easy answer, but we just don't have any vacation time to give up in order to watch her continuously. I happened to be 'in the office (my house)' today and was watching her (crated / kenneled) through a web camera (@ 11:00 AM) and she was taking a dump on a bedsheet that I gave her to lay on (my mistake). I made it down there in time to reprimand her and take her outside. I caught her in the middle of it, so she still had to go outside. I hope that helps, but I think she does not want to mess her crate so I doubt it will have helped. She went to the bathroom in the morning, so should not have had to go that badly only 3 hours later.
Any advice is ALWAYS appreciated.
Posts: 8 | Registered: Feb 2004
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ellierat
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posted February 23, 2004 03:02 PM
Excellent idea, the web cam, Yes if you catch them in the middle of it and reprimand, they understand what your telling them off for, tell me what is the crate exactly. And I'm glad your not angry, I thought you had got upset with me.
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I love my labs.
Posts: 880 | From: australia | Registered: Feb 2004
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ellierat
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posted February 23, 2004 03:05 PM
Also, I forgot another thought, she is an adult dog now and can be fed once a day, try cutting out the morning feed, then she'll have nothing to poop out, cause if you fed her this morning then that would have been what came out at 11.
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I love my labs.
Posts: 880 | From: australia | Registered: Feb 2004
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kwblue
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posted February 23, 2004 05:59 PM
We have thought of that as well and have been weening her from morning feeding. She was getting a couple of cups of food and is now down to 1. Tomorrow, I had planned on not giving her any food, but giving her a frozen kong to keep her occupied.
A crate is a wire box, basically, with a door. Could also be a plastic box with a door. Much like a Pet carrier for a car. Or like a small kennel. Usually, putting a dog in a crate will keep them from messing altogether because they don't like to mess where they lay.
Andrew
Posts: 8 | Registered: Feb 2004
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ellierat
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posted February 24, 2004 01:45 PM
O.k. i thought that is what it was, well, keep me posted please, let me know how she goes without the am feed and the kong instead, may take a couple of days though before it makes a difference.
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I love my labs.
Posts: 880 | From: australia | Registered: Feb 2004
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kwblue
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posted February 25, 2004 05:52 AM
Well, I know it takes a bit... But we did remove her food in the morning. For the last 2 days we have now done this. Now she urinates in her crate. I am confused. Unless she is holding in some urine to let out in the crate, I don't understand where it is coming from. This is getting frustrating.
This weekend, I am building a room in the basement for both the dogs. I heard from a dog behavior consultant that some dogs do not like crates and unless you spend a TON of time adjusting them to the crate, you will see this type of behavior.
She suggested an area for the dog. I told her that she has pooped in the house when left alone as well.
Oh well, the plan is to build a small room for both dogs. The room will have no carpet, but be a typical room. The floor will be a hard surface and their crates will be in there as well. The crates, however, will have a padded bed in them. That way, the dogs can get used to the crate and possibly even enjoy it as a den to get away from the other dog.
Any ideas before I start the project?
Thanks!
Posts: 8 | Registered: Feb 2004
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ellierat
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posted February 25, 2004 01:30 PM
and I thought you said you werent going to revole your lives around your dog. lol ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) .
All I can suggest is what kind of flooring have you got, and can they access outside if your not there. Dont give back the am feed.
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I love my labs.
Posts: 880 | From: australia | Registered: Feb 2004
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kwblue
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posted February 25, 2004 06:52 PM
I am definitely NOT going to give her an AM feeding anymore. I think that catching her in the act helped, but I am not so bold as to think that she would hold it if she had to go REALLY bad.
Posts: 8 | Registered: Feb 2004
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