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Topic: Just want to vent
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ms533
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posted December 11, 2003 08:11 AM
I hate how there are stereo types of dogs. Espically on pits and rotts, which i own one of each. I couldn't even tell my home owners insurance that I had a rott when i bought my house, they wouldn't have covered me. My rott is very well trained, and I hate it when I take her into Petsmart and people are darting from her, the meanest dog I have ever came in contact with was a cocker, so any dog can be mean and aggressive. So now i cant wait until my pit Ace gets a lil bigger and i can take them both out and get stared at and talked about. Yes pits are bred to be and are naturally aggressive, but I've owned pits before and none of them would hurt a fly. and this one is going to be the same. Why do people hold stereo types???? uneducated about the breeds?? or just plain stupid
Posts: 48 | From: va | Registered: Dec 2003
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ms533
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posted December 11, 2003 08:15 AM
oh and where i live there is an open field where people take their dogs and play with them off lead. I take my dogs there and i make sure there is no other dogs aroung kids people cats anything, just incase. apparently there was a lady watching me out her window and complained that my "baby killers" were going to hurt someone one day. so i received a letter from my homeoweners association that all dogs need to be on lead. I'm sure the other dog owners didnt get the memo, considering there are dogs off leash in the field everyday
Posts: 48 | From: va | Registered: Dec 2003
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cody
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posted December 11, 2003 10:46 AM
A very good friend of mine has a rottie that is HUGE, and let me tell you when I say this girl is sweet, she is sweet:) She will try to sit on your lap, lets my friends 22 month old sit on her and kiss her all over, yes, I ahve personally never met a nasty rottie. Last time I checke dthe statistics, (long time now) the Cocker Spaniel was leading in the bite category, followed by the dalmation. I ahd one (C.S.) as a child and she was sweet, but have since come across one or two that I think a Pit would cower from. I think that any dog that was bred originally for protection and fighting gets a bad rap, unfair. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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Nothing like a cold nose to wake you in the morning, (except maybe three cold noses):)
Posts: 21 | From: USA | Registered: Dec 2003
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lou3
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posted December 11, 2003 03:09 PM
yes a lot of dogs do get an unfairly bad rap. German sheperds have a bad rep but its just because stupid people who have never trained a dog before go and buy them and then ruin them because they dont have a clue what to do with them. Rotties and Dobies also have an undeservedly bad reputation. Every Rot i've met has appeared to think its a flippin chihauhau and tried to sit on my knee, lovely great soppy dogs.
However i dont think the rap pits get is unfair - there must be a reason they're illegal in a lot of countries, if they hadnt been shown to be substantially dangerous they wouldnt have been banned. (and yes cocker spaniel breeding has gone vastly down-hill temperament wise in the last few years i am all for them being taken off the "suitable for kids" breed list cause they just arent any more)
Lou
Posts: 461 | From: uk | Registered: Nov 2003
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Dawn
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posted December 11, 2003 05:19 PM
I was under the impression that they were banned not because they were dangerous but because they are so widely used in fighting. I know that that's they're banned in certain areas of the states, can't say for everywhere though.
Posts: 428 | Registered: Nov 2002
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agility120
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posted December 11, 2003 05:38 PM
i hate that! One of the sweetest, caring dogs i know is Rottweiler!! her name is HEIDI! sweetest thing that ever lived on earth!
and i have a pittbull/lab mix and she is the sweetest!! i love her to death..
also my friend has a doberman, also sweetest thing ever!
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*aSh*
"Whoever said you can't buy happiness forgot little puppies." -Gene Hill
Posts: 41 | From: PA | Registered: Nov 2003
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lou3
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posted December 12, 2003 11:07 AM
Nope Pits were banned in the UK just a few years ago (i still remember it happening and im only twenty) because they were assessed to be a danger to public safety. Staffies were used more in fighting than Pits in the UK anyway, but havent been banned because they have never been shown to be a danger to people.
Lou
Posts: 461 | From: uk | Registered: Nov 2003
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Dawn
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posted December 12, 2003 11:42 AM
Well, I'm pretty sure that's not the case anywhere over here. And I must say that I'm very sad to hear that. Unless trained to be mean (which any dog can) they are of no more danger (and perhaps less) than any other dog.
Posts: 428 | Registered: Nov 2002
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Freckles
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posted December 12, 2003 05:24 PM
All this "born to be bad" label attached to breeds is not based on a lot of intelligent research.... mostly opinion put forth by some who have had a bad experience with a certain breed, and have an axe to grind, and they had the "loudest" voice to make it seem that it was based on fact. By the time the same story gets repeated several times it sounds like there are "hundreds" of cases. Any of us who listen to the nightly news can attest to the fact that all that is set forth as "fact" usually comes from a minority thought that just "yells" louder. The "silent majority" of us dog advocates and lovers need to "squeak" a bit more.... maybe our views would then be taken as fact instead! There is no one so ignorant as the disinterested or uninformed. I am totally amazed at times when I have taken the time to research back to the source of some claim to find how ridiculous the premise was. More thinking needs to be done and less just repeating what we have been fed and just automatically accept it as having basis in fact. Those in positions of authority to make "laws" are not always "rocket scientists". I need to get off my soapbox... sorry... but couldn't let it ride.
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Lou in Texas
Posts: 122 | From: Southlake, TX | Registered: Oct 2003
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lou3
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posted December 12, 2003 06:47 PM
i dont know the exact figures but i know that pits had several times greater incidents of attacking humans in the uk than any other breed before they were banned and the number of dog-bite cases for both humans and other dogs has gone down dramatically since changing the law to ban pits. Seems to me like a law that works, gotta be a reason behind that. Personally i wouldnt want to see any other dogs banned but i would like more restrictions on who can own some of them. I mean someone who knows nothing about dogs getting a german sheperd??? thats just plain ignorance and stupidity, of course the dog's gonna end up bad cause the owner just wont know how to deal with it.
Lou
Posts: 461 | From: uk | Registered: Nov 2003
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Dawn
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posted December 12, 2003 07:08 PM
I personally feel that someone that knows nothing about dogs should not own one no matter the breed. Any dog at all can turn out bad even from just plain improper or lack of training. Pit bites would be much more likely to get reported one because of the existing reputation, and two it's probably going to be more severe. Still any dog any size can do serious damage. If you've ever been around a pit that's properly brought up, it will be the sweetest dog you've ever seen. If you're around a chihauhau that's not been handled correctly, it could be the worst and most dangerous dog you've ever seen. It has nothing to do with breed. It's in training and handling.
Posts: 428 | Registered: Nov 2002
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lou3
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posted December 12, 2003 07:31 PM
actually temperament is 80% inherited, thats why its so important when buying a puppy to see BOTH parents. If a breeder wont let you see mom or dad there's a reason and its never the one they give.
Some breeds do have a tendancy to certain characteristics while others dont have those tendancies. A breed like a cavalier has very fwe difficult personality traits and is 100% suitable for a first time owner while something like a thodesian ridgeback should NEVER be handled by someone who doesnt have many many years of experience training difficult dogs and many more training ridgebacks specifically.
I stick by my country's decision to ban Pits though. Reputation has nothing to do with it, its hard fact over here that child bites are the most likley to get reported no matter what the breed and pits were just mutilating too many innocent kids. (i have looked up the figures and they were something like two cases of kids being put IN HOSPITAL per week compared to its nearest rival which had just one case per month)
Posts: 461 | From: uk | Registered: Nov 2003
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Dawn
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posted December 12, 2003 09:39 PM
Not arguing your point at all, but have you thought that that might reflect on the type of people that are owning the dangerous pits? I mean, who leaves their kid with the dog alone anyway, no matter the breed. So therefore, the irresponsible people that have the vicious dogs are the ones that also are not looking out for their kids. Now that's not to say that everyone who has a kid that's been bit is an irresponsible parent. Things happen. But I know that I've never looked at it like that before.
Not too long ago around here there was a couple that left their 5 month old baby in the room alone with their 3 month old rottie (I believe.) When they returned, the dog had ripped off part of the babies ear. Now in all probability, the puppy was only playing and didn't realize he was actually hurting the baby. The man then continued to do some absolutely horrible things to the puppy that I wouldn't even dream of repeating. But it wasn't the dog's fault. I seriously doubt the dog had a mean bone in his body, he was only 3 months old. But you just do not leave a child, especially an infant, alone with an animal. No matter how well you think you know them, or how good natured they are, they are not 100% trustworthy.
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fullhouse9873
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posted December 16, 2003 01:08 AM
grrrrr!@ THIS JUST REALLY IRKS ME (YES - I'M YELLING). EVERY PIT THAT I HAVE KNOWN AS BEEN SWEET AND LOVING AND WOULDN'T HURT ANYONE THEY LOVED. BECAUSE OF STUPID IGNORANT PIECES OF USELESS HUMAN FLESH - THESE DOGS ARE MADE TO LOOK LIKE EVIL BABY KILLERS! IN THE US AT LEAST - THEY'RE BANNED BECAUSE THEY ARE THE MAIN BREED USED IN DOG FIGHTING. AND YES - A PIT BITE IS GOING TO GET MORE ATTENTION THAT A COCKER BITE - BECAUSE A PIT IS BIGGER AND CAN DO MORE DAMAGE. IT'S ALL IN HOW THEY ARE RAISE.
YOU KNOW - ALL THESE PEOPLE THAT FIGHT PITS AND HELP TO GIVE THEM A BAD NAME - WE SHOULD JUST STICK THEM ALL IN A BI PEN AND LET THEM FIGHT IT OUT GLADIATOR STYLE UNTIL THEY'RE ALL DEAD!
OK - I've calmed down - but so many people are afraid of these breeds. But they really can be a great family pet. And I probably went a little overboard about the people who fight dogs - but it kills me to think of the pain they inflict on these poor animals. I only think they should have to go through what these dogs go through.
For everyone out there who thinks pits are bad - I wish you could meet my two pit mixes (OK - one is in doggie heave). They are (and were) the sweetest dogs ever.
Posts: 247 | From: Jefferson, WI | Registered: Sep 2003
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ms533
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posted December 16, 2003 04:29 AM
Oh, and I hate watching Animal Cops (anyone ever watch it) They always are taking pits from people, (the people are usually fighting them or abusing them) but instead of trying to find homes for them or getting them the right training so they can find homes they put them straight to sleep!!!!!!!! for what??? for a humans stupidity. Its not the dogs fault whatso ever. I believe if there is a mean dog it is straightly the owners fault or a previous owners fault!!!!!!
Posts: 48 | From: va | Registered: Dec 2003
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lou3
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posted December 16, 2003 04:49 AM
No guys the owner has a lot to do with it but temperament is over 80% inherited, so if something is bred into a dog, its there to stay.
Posts: 461 | From: uk | Registered: Nov 2003
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Dawn
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posted December 16, 2003 10:56 AM
If it's inherited, how can you explain the pits that aren't agressive? If it was inherited, all pits would be aggresive. You have never been around pits because they are not allowed in your country. Therefore, you have no first hand expeirence with them. Most of us do. I've never met a mean one in my life, even some abused ones.
On another note, I understand them putting down fighting dogs. For the same reason they put down fighting roosters. It's not that they can't be reconditioned to be trusted with people. It's that they can't be reconditioned to be safe around other animals. That behavior has been engrained in them, and it's not such an easy matter to retrain them. And it's not possible to keep them away from other animals 100% of the time.
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fullhouse9873
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posted December 30, 2003 12:53 AM
I don't think that Animal Precinct (NY) - puts down pits - but I know that in Detroit they put them down. It's sad when you see a pit that is a loving dog have to be destroyed just because of the stigma surrounding the breed. I'm sure that some of the aggressiveness in pits is inherited - but that's because you have stupid people running around breeding these dogs for fighting and not companionship.
Lou - I can tell that you are opposed to pits - but if you could meet my dogs - they might change your mind. Chance my pit/german sheperd mix would not hurt anyone (except the mailman lol). And Wilson - my little angel - he was the sweetest dog. Yes he did have soem issues - but I got him at 3 years of age - and I don't know his backround. Also - he wasn't neutered until 3 years of age. But both dogs loved my kids - and would tolerate anything they threw at them (literally sometimes!). If people would give them a chance - they would find out what great dogs they are.
Posts: 247 | From: Jefferson, WI | Registered: Sep 2003
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carriecrowe
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posted December 30, 2003 06:33 AM
ME PERSONALLY wouldnt own a pit or a dobie ever, and yes i have met both breeds.. i use to be "afraid" of rotties until i met my hubby and he changed my entire outlook on the breed, we now own a full bred rottie.
i have noticed a couple of you telling lou that he hasnt seen or been around a pit, what makes you think that? i mean you dont know where lou has been or seen... so you have no right to make the assumption that lou hasnt seen one.. the proper way of going about that would have been to ASK lou if they have been around pits. just because they arent allowed in his country, dont mean he hasnt traveled around to different countries..
i believe it depends on how a dog is handled, but i do know some dogs are just down right dangerous no matter how they are handled, i have witnessed that myself.
[ December 30, 2003, 07:04 AM: Message edited by: carriecrowe ]
Posts: 118 | From: Batesville,Ar | Registered: Dec 2003
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Dawn
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posted December 30, 2003 08:58 AM
Lou is from the uk and they are outlawed there. If we were wrong in saying that she has not been around them, I'm sure she would let us know.
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lou3
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posted December 30, 2003 09:24 AM
I havent been around Pits much - i have seen a couple in Canada cause i go there quite regularly to visit my relatives who live in Ontario and Toronto. I wouldnt trust any of the ones i've met there either - they all had dominance issues. But Dawn is right i dont have a lot of experience with them compared to other breeds. My cousin who lives in Canada was severely bitten by a pit as well, and this was a dog that was meant to be one of these "sweet" pits - it just flew across the road and attcked him when he walked past the dogs garden gate. The owners refused to put it down til my uncle took them to court and got a court order to have the dog destroyed. We were all soo mad about that.
Fullhouse - not meaning to sound argumentative here - but how would your Wilson have changed my minds about Pits if he had problems with being aggressive - surely that more proves my point than yours!
Carriecrowe - hehe so many people think im a bloke - i shorten my middle name Louise to Lou when im online (never use my first name for security reasons) Think my boyfriend might be slightly disturbed if he found out i wasnt a woman. lol.
Also have you had bad experiences with Dobies? i wouldnt have one around children i think you are totally right about that - but most lines are alright, although in my experience red dobies have more problems that black dobies. They dont tend to be aggressive as such - they just tend to have very little respect for anyone and mainly injure people through being over boistrous and "mouthing" rather than really aggressive biting which is not half as serious a problem as the pit that attacked my cousin. They gotta have REALLY firm handling. I am getting a pup in the new yr - i met both his parents and they are lovely, im gonna call him Johnson. But i wont be taking him round to my Brother's house when his daughter is there til shes a good bit older!
[ December 30, 2003, 09:33 AM: Message edited by: lou3 ]
Posts: 461 | From: uk | Registered: Nov 2003
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carriecrowe
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posted December 30, 2003 09:31 AM
LOU: my deepest appologies... sorry ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 118 | From: Batesville,Ar | Registered: Dec 2003
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lou3
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posted December 30, 2003 09:34 AM
lol - no problem
i think its quite funny - John really would be mortified!
Posts: 461 | From: uk | Registered: Nov 2003
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Freckles
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posted December 30, 2003 10:51 AM
I am not a big subscriber to the "inherited" school of thought.... human OR animal. I have seen too man absolutely lovely children come from absolutely abhorrent parents, and again maladjusted children capable of murder coming from loving, caring people. We used to believe the world was flat and we STILL say the sun is rising or setting, maybe someday we will have a better idea of how to arrive at reality.....if we keep learning and expanding our thought we just might come up with a better excuse for bad behavior than passing the buck. Labels just don't hold water for me... animals or people.
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Lou in Texas
Posts: 122 | From: Southlake, TX | Registered: Oct 2003
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Freckles
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posted December 30, 2003 10:53 AM
Freckles "mom" is a Lou, too..... short for Marylou. Just for the record
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Lou in Texas
Posts: 122 | From: Southlake, TX | Registered: Oct 2003
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