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Author
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Topic: What would you do?
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DogLover12
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posted December 14, 2003 11:53 PM
A couple of hours ago my dog bit my 9 yr old niece. Blunt wasn't I? Let me explain. She was lying down on the sofa when a commercial came on. She decided to imitate the commercial by placing her hands over her mouth in a 'cone' and began growling at my dog. At the time, he was chewing on a pig ear. He bit her nose and we had to rush to the hospital. The gash wasn’t big, but she did need 3 stitches.
I'm 19 and I live with my mother, my sister (her mother) tends to sleep over a lot and brings along her Yorkshire terrier. My dog is a Chihuahua mix. They get a long just fine, they snap at each other but it has never resulted in either of them getting hurt.
My sister wants my dog out. My mother told me it was up to me. And now here I am, 2:38am in the morning and I'm in utter despair. I do not want to place him anywhere, but in reality I must think of the welfare of others. I was hoping to get some answers. What should I do? Is there anything I can give him, medication, etc to stop him from ever doing that again? He's gotten his first set of shots and is getting ready for his second - He's only 1 yrs old (14 inches in length, about 6 or 7 in height).
We have two theories on why we think he bit her. He could've been scared because of her growling into his ear, or he thought she was going to take his chew toy away...I can't really count the last one because I trained him not to bite others while he's eating, chewing, anything of that sort. I'm not saying he's not cautious, but when a dog bites a child what does a person do? He’s never bitten anyone before, and we know that when he growls he just wants to be left alone.
When my niece plays with him, she has the tendency to make my dog and even her own feel uncomfortable, and because I wasn't there (I was in my room) I'm unsure what to believe. My dog usually walks away or tries to get away from her and we’ve warned her countless of times to leave him alone… Could it have been that she unintentionally made him upset? Even so, what should I do then?
He means the world to me and I can't see myself letting him go. But like I said before I have to think of others before my needs...I just wish there was a way for me to keep him...
Please let me know what you think, any sort of advice is welcomed...
[ December 15, 2003, 01:18 AM: Message edited by: DogLover12 ]
Posts: 4 | From: Brooklyn, NY | Registered: Dec 2003
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lou3
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posted December 15, 2003 03:46 AM
I have to say that the day any of my dogs bite anyone is their last day on this earth. Kid safe dogs are rare, but a dog shouldnt be biting someone just because they are growling at him, I play growl at my dogs all the time and they growl back but wouldnt bite. The fact that he was chewing on a pig ear cant be used as an excuse either, any member of the family should have been able to take that away from him without any threat of getting a negative reaction from the dog.
If you are having problems with him growling when he "wants to be left alone" i suggest there are some SERIOUS dominance issues between you and your dog and the problem may clear up if you consult a professional dog trainer. At the minute i suggest this to be your best course of action as he has never bitten before, but if it happens again i think putting him down may be your only choice.
im really sorry for your situation, i had a dog put down last year because she bit my twin brother (who was 19 at the time) so i know just how you feel.
Lou
Posts: 461 | From: uk | Registered: Nov 2003
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Dawn
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posted December 15, 2003 06:58 AM
I must say that even the best trained dogs I've been around will growl at you (and not in a play kind of way) if you growl at them, and truthfully at 9 years old she should know better. I agree that no dog should be allowed to bite, but you also have to think about the provocation. Would he do it again? That's hard to say, but if this is the only problem you've ever had with him, probably not. As long as he's never handled like that again.
Posts: 428 | Registered: Nov 2002
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cody
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posted December 15, 2003 07:24 AM
wow, that's a tough call for you to have to make, I can see both sides of it here goes my experience, 2 years ago my son was at a friends house that he regularly visited, they had an American Bulldog, male. 3 years old. She has 2 kids of her own adn numerous neices and nephews, so this dog was raised around children. "Ace" attacked my son, with no provocation, my son was walking in the yard with my friends son. My son ended up with 52 stitches in his face. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) Now, this dog had never shown any agression towards other animals or children. Their decision (Thank God) was to put him down. Mind you there was no provocation on my son's part, just agression on teh dog's part. Would he have done it again? Who knows and quite frankly, who wants to take that risk? My son still has the scars to prove how dangerous this behaviour can be and your neice was lucky IMO. Now, my brother has a 7 year old yellow lab, he also has a 2 1/2 year old daughter that has absolutley no respect for animals. She will pull his ears, sit on him adn chase him wtih numerous toys. Last year, he started to growl at her and show his teeth. my brother reprimanded him for it, a little harshly, but I will leave details out. Is Bentley (Y.L.) warning my neice, or will he eventually bite her? He hasn;t so far and he is banished outside when she is awake. My brother and sis in law will yell at her when she is aggravating him, but that is as far as it goes, then they put him outside. They stayed with me not too long ago for 2 weeks while they were closing on tehir house, I myself have 3 dogs and don't tolerate any aggravating from her. I went so far as to spank her bottem when I caught her trying to hit my Jack Russell with a magazine. I took it from her and smacked her on the bottem with it, then I asked her if it felt good, that's how Roxy feels when you hit her, etc. After her spanking, she never aggravated any of my dogs again. From day one, kids need to learn respect for animals and they need to understand the hurt that animals can do to them. they still have their lab Bentley, but they are not doing anything to teach my neice the proper way to act around animals. Short of your dog telling you why he nipped your neice, (which won't be anytime soon, LOL), you can only guess, maybe he was sleeping and her growling at him startled him, maybe she did more than that, maybe she hurt his ears with the noise, who knows. One suggestion might be that when she is there, put your dog in a crate, or in your bedroom with the door shut. this has happened once and you should be very cautious when she comes over.
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Nothing like a cold nose to wake you in the morning, (except maybe three cold noses):)
Posts: 21 | From: USA | Registered: Dec 2003
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Dawn
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posted December 15, 2003 07:40 AM
I just realized that you said no one was in the room at the time. So, you don't really know what she did. I'm not trying to judge your nieces character, but I work around that age children every day, and if something like that happens and it's clearly their fault, they will lie about it. Just something to consider. You really don't know exactly what the circumstances were.
Posts: 428 | Registered: Nov 2002
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NicoleLJ
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posted December 15, 2003 08:53 AM
I am so sorry you are going through this. I have something you can try that I have used to train the abused dogs that I work with in reconditioning. I know that your dog is not abused but biting is one of the traits I have to condition out of these dogs. First thing is you have to put him at the bottem of the totem pull. No more free feeding from the floor, no more being allowed up on the furniture unless it is on you and you make him preform something first. No more free treats and if he wants to eat a treat like a pigs ear you must hold it. Now this may sound weird at first but I do it with these dogs. While you are holding his dish for him to eat or his treat periodically growl at him and take the dish away for a few minutes. I know lots of people might say no to this but you have to realize that this is not a normal situation. I would not do this with a dog who hasn't bitten anyone. After a minute or two make him perform a trick and then give him the bowl back with you agian holding it. Don't let him even lift his lip or grumble at all. If he shows any kind of domiance behaviour then growl at him and take the food completely away until his next feeding.
Now when your niece is there I agree with Cody that you should keep them apart if possible. But if you can't then always supervise. Don't put your dog down though. To me most dogs have hope. What Cody described I would also say the dog has to be put down but I have a little feeling at the back of my head that says this was provoked in some way.
Most dogs can be reconditioned. I have a prime example in my home. She is a Doberman/Pit Bull and is now 10. I rescued her from the pound the day she was scheduled to be put to sleep. She was 4 at the time. She ended up at the pound because she attacked her owner and he ended up in the hospital with 60 staples. Why did I rescue the dog? Because it wasn't her fault that she did this. You see this man had been useing her for dog fighting. She ended up pregnant and then the next time he went out to beat her she defended herself. The pound allowed her to have her pups and then were going to put her down but when I heard her story I couldn't let them do that. They knew my reputation for reconditioning cats and dogs so they gave me a 6 month probation period. If she was not safe to be around by that time she would be put down. When I brought her home she hated men and dogs with a passion. She would attack my windows if she were to see either of them. She loved women and children though. So I went straight to work. When the pound owner who happened to be a man came to check on her at the end of the 6 months he was in for a shock. Before he couldn't even think of touching her or going into her kennel but now she was playing frisbee with him in the yard and wrestling too. Then he watched her reactions to dogs walking by on the sidewalk. She ignored them completely. In 6 months I couldn't teach her to like other dogs but I could teach her to ignore them. Now she can actually play with other dogs. She is my trained assistance dog in the house and can perform over a 70 different commands. Most dogs have hope. Please remember that. Happy Holidays
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Lets teach the public to spay and neuter pets and leave breeding up to the experts, to help decrease the thousands of animals destroyed monthly in shelters and pounds around the world.
Posts: 82 | From: Raymond. Alberta | Registered: Oct 2003
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bearsmom
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posted December 16, 2003 12:32 AM
I'm sorry about your situation. It sounds like you've been headed in this direction for awhile. If your dog has warned your neice in the past, there's no reason to believe that he didn't this time. She shouldn't have needed warning repeatedly.
I understand your sister being angry. By the same token, she needs to take some responsibility for not teaching her kid to respect the space of animals. At nine years old, your niece is way past the age where she should know when to leave a dog alone. From the time my niece and nephew could move around, we've explained to them when they need to leave dogs alone. Now, at 3 1/2 and 6 (!) they're very familiar with the signs.
I'd keep your dog away from your niece, if only to keep him from being teased and tormented. Kids who don't know how to act around animals are one of my pet (whoops!) peeves.
Good luck!
Posts: 90 | From: Oregon | Registered: Dec 2003
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fullhouse9873
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posted December 16, 2003 12:48 AM
I work very hard to make sure my kids are nice to the dogs. There's too many kids out there who just do not know how to act around a dog. But if you have kids in the house - you have to expect that at some time - they're going to chase the dog - or accidentally step on them, or fall on them. My dogs know not to even so much as growl at the kids. I've had my kids trip over - and fall on the dogs (my 1 1/2 year old is lacking in the balance dpet!) and they just get up and find another spot to lay down.
I would consider getting this dog into some training - before it's too late. Also - from now on - I would not leave your dog unsupervised with anyone but yourself.
Good luck with everything.
Posts: 247 | From: Jefferson, WI | Registered: Sep 2003
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cody
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posted December 16, 2003 07:52 AM
Nicole, I can assure you that in no way did my son provoke the dog, he has been raised with numerous animals and respects them completly, there were 5 other people out in that yard that saw exactly the same thing, 3 other kids and 2 adults, all telling the same story on what happened. Put yourself in a mother's shoes, if it were your child that was attacked, what would you do? I am a total animal lover and hate the thought of animals being destroyed, BUT, I, as well as my friend who owned the dog, were not willing to take the risk of this dog attacking another child and possibly killing it. My son was very, very lucky.
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Nothing like a cold nose to wake you in the morning, (except maybe three cold noses):)
Posts: 21 | From: USA | Registered: Dec 2003
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NicoleLJ
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posted December 16, 2003 08:35 AM
I am so sorry you took my post wrong. When I said that most dogs have a chance and a few don't I meant that the one that attacked your son should have and I also would have put it down. I understood that there was no provoking involved. I totally sympathize with you and your son. When I say this was provoked in some way I meant the niece to the little dog. I can see now how you would take that the wrong way. I am so terribly sorry. I should have made myself more clear. Please forgive me.
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Lets teach the public to spay and neuter pets and leave breeding up to the experts, to help decrease the thousands of animals destroyed monthly in shelters and pounds around the world.
Posts: 82 | From: Raymond. Alberta | Registered: Oct 2003
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Dawn
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posted December 16, 2003 10:52 AM
Not saying that the boy was provoking the dog (don't want this taken the wrong way). This is more of a general statement. Sometimes what a dog would find threatening, we wouldn't even think about. Like looking a dog in the eye. For some dogs, that's an open invitation to fight. It's very threatening to them. Sometimes we don't understand what happened, and we may never know, but the dog might still feel threatened for whatever reason.
Posts: 428 | Registered: Nov 2002
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cody
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posted December 16, 2003 05:16 PM
nicole, thank you for your kind words, that was very traumatic for my son and myself as well, the most frustrating part is that we Don't know why Ace attacked the way he did, not that it would be any easier, but it would give us closure of sorts..i wholeheartedly agree Dawn, sometimes there are signs that we, as humans, don't see. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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Nothing like a cold nose to wake you in the morning, (except maybe three cold noses):)
Posts: 21 | From: USA | Registered: Dec 2003
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JKKsEuro DobermanBreeder
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posted December 18, 2003 11:25 PM
You have a very dominate dog their.if one of my dogs bit anyone i would put them down . But he is just a little dog and it seems you want to turn him around so. 1 do not let the dog on the couch, bed furniture ever again.You need to take this puppy down hold him like a baby on his back while firmly holding his muzzle and his scruff. this is alpha rolling the dog.And get a prong collor you are going to need it they do make small ones and no they do not cut the dog at all chokes do cut in these are much better. two if he is not fixed yet do it immediatly. 3 he need training most dominate dogs will not like to be put in a down stay or on thier belly. when you do this the first time he will fight you . but your own dog growling at you is totally unacceptable.you need to talk to this dog in a firm controlling voice do not baby talk him that is submission on your part. once you have him down in an alpha roll the more he fights you the more you hold him firmly like stradling a horse. the more he fights the more weight you put on him.when he goes still and plays dead you pinch all around his mouth, belly, and ears, and pull on his paws, and tail. he should just lie their in complete submission if he fights back into the hold muzzle scruff and dont let him move. do this everyday a couple times a day until he calms down then just weekl. after you have a handle on him have everyone else do this too. he should never grow at you or anyone in the family ever. he has to learn sit and stay too do not let him bolt though any door before you that is a dominace too.any growling should be dealt with a firm harsh voice correction and a dominace roll or time out in his crate. do not ever tolerate that. so no bed, no going though the door in front of you, sit stay down stay if you have to use a prong collor and a leash so you can correct him from across the room.teaching not to bite is fairly easy. i start with mine a 3 weeks but is never too late. 1 hold around his mouth gently squeez while saying NO BITING firmly. open his mouth put your fingers in his mouth to the back of the throat till you get the gag reflex. a couple lessons they learn really quick finger are not chew toys. 3 the toy chew issue if he did indeed attack because of the chewie then pick up all his toys and chews he looses them all until you are their with him. he only gets it when you say and has to work for it sit diown come here no freebeis with a dominate dog. when you want you take it back and put it away do not let him keep them down. any questions e mail me directly at JKKsDobermans@cs.com this works for my dobermans quite well and on German shepards and Rotties too
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Marcia Jasinski
JKKsdobermans@cs.com http://ourworld.cs.com/jkksdobermans/myhomepage/dog.html
owned by Angus(Latvia) Kleo(Russia), Ginger and BellaDonna (Plus her 9 new pups)
Posts: 17 | From: Buffalo New York | Registered: Dec 2003
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tiffy
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posted December 18, 2003 11:30 PM
im very sorry this happened
but ur dog is still pretty young so u cant really expect the world from him but he shouldnt bite others over something like that
but being me and pretty much always on the dogs side i feel ur niece was the one out of place (sorry if that offened u)
i suggest that you keep ur dog and niece apart at all times and if they have to be in the same room keep ur dog on the leash
but then again it might be good if u teach ur niece how to act around the dog and just work with him a little (tell him to sit, stay ect etc) but if u do that make sure ur there
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Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
Posts: 18 | From: australia | Registered: Dec 2003
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