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Author
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Topic: lOOKING FOR A GERMAN SHEPERD FEMALE TO BREED WITH MY MALE
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Bruce
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posted April 03, 2004 06:40 PM
LOOKING FOR A BLACK AND SABLE PUREBRED FEMALE TO BREED WITH MY PUREBRED MALE
Posts: 1 | From: Mo | Registered: Apr 2004
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crazy_for_corgis
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posted April 03, 2004 09:29 PM
put an ad in ur local paper.
Posts: 22 | From: canada | Registered: Feb 2004
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NicoleLJ
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posted April 05, 2004 04:36 PM
Has your male been shown? Had his hips and elbows check? Had allt he relavent blood and other tests done? Has he been proven in any trial? If you say no to these questions then fix him and don't breed him. Breeding is not just something to be taken lightly.
Nicole & Sheena
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Lets teach the public to spay and neuter pets and leave breeding up to the experts, to help decrease the thousands of animals destroyed monthly in shelters and pounds around the world.
Posts: 82 | From: Raymond. Alberta | Registered: Oct 2003
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goombaya
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posted April 07, 2004 09:59 AM
Nicole Im curious if you have a female that Bruce might be interested in?
Because he didnt ask if he should breed, he simply mentioned that he was seeking a female.
Your post kind of reads to me like unsolicited advice.
Posts: 129 | Registered: Jan 2004
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Nathan
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posted April 07, 2004 07:48 PM
I agree with goombaya. He didnot ask if he should breed him just if there were anyone who had a female. You shouldn't jump all over people's case like that. Just answer the question and dont give uneeded advice. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Nathan Tucker
Posts: 33 | From: Jeffersonville, Indiana | Registered: Apr 2004
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NicoleLJ
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posted April 08, 2004 11:30 AM
I don't see it as unsolicted advice. If someone post something for everyone to see and answer to then they are also opening up the question to all sorts of advice. As soon as I read his intention to breed then I had to ask some questions that he has the right to answer or not. I have worked in the shelter and rescue system as a foster home and a volunteer for over 12 years. So I have seen the results of careless breeding so when I see an opportunity to help someone learn or give advice that might help decrease the amount of dogs and cats put down every year I will do it. If people don't like it too bad. I didn't insult anyone I am doing what I see needs to be done to save our four legged friends lives.
Nicole & Sheena
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Lets teach the public to spay and neuter pets and leave breeding up to the experts, to help decrease the thousands of animals destroyed monthly in shelters and pounds around the world.
Posts: 82 | From: Raymond. Alberta | Registered: Oct 2003
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goombaya
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posted April 12, 2004 11:24 AM
The problem with it nicole is that you attempt to impose your standards to what a responsible breeding is. While i agree with you, Bruce has the right to hold himself to his own standard.
If Bruce had asked "what constitues a good breeding" Or "what steps should I consider before breeding" than I'd be in line with you 100%
Also, since youve opened the box. to what level should Bruce have shown his dog? Should he be a finsihed Champion? Through AKC? Should he have specialed him?
Regarding his hip tests, should he have them ofa'd or use penn hip? Or will his local specialists opinion be enough?
Along with your list of acceptable breeding tools you failed to mention pedigree research, or tempermant. Bruce's dog could have excellent hips, but all of his littermates be dysplastic..
The point is that there isnt a finite answer to it, there isnt a pat formula to apply to what qualifies as a responsible breeding. Its the owners responsibilty to make informed decisions, and the buyer should hold him accountable by using their own standard. If you had a female that you were considering contacting Bruce about than id say you were within your rights to ask those questions.. aside from that it just kind of assumes that Bruce has no idea what he's doing.
Posts: 129 | Registered: Jan 2004
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NicoleLJ
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posted April 13, 2004 08:52 AM
If I kept my mouth shut when people even mentioned breeding I wouldn't have been able to convince so many people over the years to not breed their animals and to fix them. Like I said before I am going to keep telling people my opinion because I work in the system and see the results of a lot of people who are ill informed making bad decisions. I am not forcing them to read my words or to hear them or do them. THey still make their own decision. I just give them an opinion and that is something I am going to keep on doing. I have help in a lot of ways by doing this and I find it sad that you seem to have the opinion that if not asked then don't tell. That won't chage the fact that thousands of dogs and cats are put down so often. At least I am trying to make a difference. But the same thing to you. You can either read this and learn or not. I am not responding to this anymore. I have stated my opinion which was my right and I have tried to help and I will continue to do so on any post I see like this.
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Lets teach the public to spay and neuter pets and leave breeding up to the experts, to help decrease the thousands of animals destroyed monthly in shelters and pounds around the world.
Posts: 82 | From: Raymond. Alberta | Registered: Oct 2003
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DaxAriel's toy
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posted April 13, 2004 09:00 AM
I agree with Nicole that her opinion is a good one about breeding and that anyone looking for a potential breeding partner should list fully what attributes their dogs possess which would make them a suitable genetic donar. ESPECIALLY a male whose contribution is minimal and whose takes no risk. Because let's face it there is a risk to the female that males simply don't have.
Posts: 748 | From: Edmonton AB Canada | Registered: Mar 2004
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crazy_for_corgis
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posted April 13, 2004 02:28 PM
I believe that the original poster should have elaborated more. Perhaps then we would be able to judge on whether the person knows what they're doing or if they're just along for the ride.
Posts: 22 | From: canada | Registered: Feb 2004
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luvmyjr
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posted April 13, 2004 04:30 PM
I think the people who most take advantage of the breeds are the so-called breeders themselves.I think it is horrible to breed a female over and over and over to reap a profit. A great majority of the Sires and Dams that produce for breeders are only kennel dogs who are nothing but puppy making machines. They don't even have the affection of a family. To me that is more digusting than a person breeding for a hobby.I have jack russels and the best dog i have ever had is a dog who was bred from pets.He is pure bred. I have also paid $650.00 for a so-called top quality dog and have delt with alot of faults.I think it is irresponsible to breed dogs with health issues and faults, but more important than anything is the motive. We should try to preserve the breed, but to make sure we realize we are dealing with an animal who enjoys personal contact. They are a pack animal who want to be part of our pack (family)
Posts: 2 | From: california | Registered: Apr 2004
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ellierat
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posted April 13, 2004 05:57 PM
I think the question on a forum speaks for itself, if you are dead set at wanting to show and breed you would be in the right circles to find a female and would not need to advertise, the forum is for general chat and advise, not a classified advertising paper.
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I love my labs.
Posts: 880 | From: australia | Registered: Feb 2004
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GretaJack
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posted April 15, 2004 04:03 AM
Well said Ellie. If you have a top quality stud b!tch owners would be contacting the stud owners, not vice versa
Posts: 195 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Dec 2003
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goombaya
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posted April 15, 2004 08:23 AM
ok here we go again..
Ellerat, you have arrived at an assumption. Not saying your not probably correct, but it is still just an assumption.
Doglover, If someone had a female they were interested in breeding with Bruce's male.. they share responsibilty in asking the questions that satisfy there own requirements of a suitable male.. not Nicole's requirements or yours. I dont know what you mean by especially a male whose qualifications are minimal... you dont know that about Bruce's dog.
Luvmyjr, your right and wrong.. there are responsible breeders and there are irresponsible breeders. The best a buyer can do is inform themselves.. Remember if it werent for the efforts of responsible breeders, there would not be a purebred dog. There is no doubt that some people exploit this, you can eliminate the "market" for their product by not purchasing a dog from someone you feel is not respponsible. If buyers were more informed, and chose not to buy from bad breeders, puppymills, etc etc.. the practice would cease as there would be no profit in it.
Nicole, I dont know where you get a dont ask dont tell opinion from me.. I feel strongly that anyone considering contacting bruce about a breeding should ask a ton of questions. They should ask questions to satisfy there own requirements for a Stud-not your requirements. You dont have a female that you are considering mating with Bruces dog, so your requirements for breeding are irrelevant. Your aide in shelters is admireable. BUT remember if noone bought those dogs, they wouldnt exist.. I am a particpant in the fancy of Purebred dogs.. I have little personal tolerance for Bad Breedings, but i dont rail my standards against others, unless im directly asked to. And believe me my standards are WAY tougher than the minimal levels you posed. Basically I agree with the minimal standards you presented, but just dont think your justified in posing them. And your crusade against breeding is time ill spent especially if there is a profit motivation to them.. if you educate buyers -you'll find the majority will make good decisions.
Posts: 129 | Registered: Jan 2004
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ellierat
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posted April 16, 2004 02:19 AM
Well I don't want to be drawn into the debate, just stating my opinion, also an advocate and member for the kennel club here. I feel the main problem with the original answer was maybe it lacked some tact, but the answers were still admirable and applicable.
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I love my labs.
Posts: 880 | From: australia | Registered: Feb 2004
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goombaya
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posted April 16, 2004 09:00 AM
Ellierat,
Lets hypothetically suppose that Bruce had had his dogs hips and elbows checked- he failed miserably. Lets suppose he has shown him 5 times, and been dq'd each time for being a horrible specimen. Lets suppose that he has had all other tests done and failed them all.
SO with this assumption, he can answer YES to each of Nicoles criteria for breeding.
Posts: 129 | Registered: Jan 2004
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ellierat
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posted April 16, 2004 04:11 PM
That could be so, but then by the rules of our VCA Club, he would not be able to register a litter, and should not breed with his dog. As I said there was nothing wrong with the questions asked, maybe just a little more tact in the asking.
When you put yourself on a forum you open your questions and answers to the world, just look at our politicians, our sporting people, their whole lives are open, the media zero in, are they right, or wrong, do we still read the paper, watch the news for the gossip.
Everyone has a right to their opinion, even you and myself, it doesn't always mean we are right, but is the joy of living in a free country.
This is not a personal attack against you Goombayaa, because your opinions are just as viable as everyone elses, and see I have drawn myself into it and I said I wouldn't. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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I love my labs.
Posts: 880 | From: australia | Registered: Feb 2004
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goombaya
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posted April 16, 2004 06:44 PM
You see ellierat, the AKC does not have a protocol or criteria for breeding, only that it be purebred and documentable.
I asked nicole to better define the standards she was attempting to hold bruce to, she did not answer my simple question. She did defend her right to her opinion - which i am as of yet unable to understand because she hasnt yet told us what standard she would find acceptable, or under what conditions she would find it OK for bruce to breed.
What we have from Nicole is teh following.. "Has your male been shown? Had his hips and elbows check? Had allt he relavent blood and other tests done? Has he been proven in any trial? If you say no to these questions then fix him and don't breed him.
I'll ask again.. to what level should his dog have been shown and through what organization... what score hips and by what testing means.. same for elbows..
Now - you wanna get tricky, Nicole doesnt mention tempermant.. is that saying that its ok to breed a dog with good hips that has an unstable tempermant? She makes no mention of attempting to better a breed.. which im sure your vca does, she doesnt mention inbreeding co-efficients, hybrid vigor, pedigree analyss or anything truely related to the art of bettering a breed... she simply gets ona soapbox babbles a bit and defends her right to do it..
I'll agree its her right to babble, but its my right to point out to her that her position is weak-and it is (I also find her somewhat insulting).
Posts: 129 | Registered: Jan 2004
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DaxAriel's toy
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posted April 16, 2004 07:45 PM
Wow. Goombaya, this Bruce has found an advocate in you. I noticed that we're doing a lot of posting but Bruce has never responded back. Either he's moved on or found out this was not the doggy version of "Singles" column. Can I suggest we close this topic at least until the orignal poster comes back online.
Posts: 748 | From: Edmonton AB Canada | Registered: Mar 2004
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NicoleLJ
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posted April 16, 2004 07:58 PM
I have to respond to this because now you are insulting me by saying my opinion and such is babbling. You don't even know me or what I know. I asked a few questions, not all of the ones I would find important to consider if breeding, just a few to see what his response would be. If he had responded then I would have helped to either steer him in the right direction or tried to convince him to change his mind, depending on the answers. I have not defended myself agianst you because I see it as pointless. You have your opinion and I have mine yet I have not insult or attacked you for you opinion except to say that you seem to have a no ask don't tell opinion. I do know what I am talking about and I will continue to be an advocate for spaying and neutering and to leave the breeding up to the people who know to do the research and what type of lines to breed and so on. I know about temperments and all that goes into breeding an exceptional dog. Not because I care to breed but because I want to be able to inform people why they should not and if they are going to then the things they should consider. Bruce never did answer which was his right but please stop attacking me when I am not attacking you or your opinion.
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Lets teach the public to spay and neuter pets and leave breeding up to the experts, to help decrease the thousands of animals destroyed monthly in shelters and pounds around the world.
Posts: 82 | From: Raymond. Alberta | Registered: Oct 2003
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ellierat
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posted April 16, 2004 08:41 PM
Luckily in Australia to belong to our Kennel Club there are a strict set of rules, if you are found to not be following these rules you can be either reprimanded, fined, or thrown out of the club, being neither able to register pups or show your dog. The local council gives discount prices to registrations of dogs to those in the club, any dog obtaining a basic obedience certificate, those spayed, neutered etc.
Government is lobbying that a law be passed that all dogs and cats be sterilized unless you are a club member. We have employees from council physically do door checks on our registered animals, there is no way here that you can keep an unregistered animal, fines start from $50 up to $500. Dogs are not allowed to roam, go down the street without a lead etc, you get fined.
The VCA (our club) states in our breed (lab) all must be hip and elbow scored before breeding or you cannot register the litter. You cannot breed a VCA registered dog to an unregistered dog even of the same breed. etc.etc.
So I guess the questions asked did not suprise me, they would be naturally asked here and even more, like is he registered. Lucky you all don't live in Australia. If you think Nicole was hard, try taking on our council!!!
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I love my labs.
Posts: 880 | From: australia | Registered: Feb 2004
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goombaya
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posted April 17, 2004 12:39 PM
"I asked a few questions, not all of the ones I would find important to consider if breeding, just a few to see what his response would be. If he had responded then I would have helped to either steer him in the right direction or tried to convince him to change his mind"
I'll say this again, Nicole.. you have NOT Mentioned what you find to be an acceptable breeding. You continue to say that you know what your talking about, im just asking that you share "Nicole's great breeders mandate" with me.
You say you'll leave it to experts but havent defined that either.
You do say above that you attempted to Bait and Lure Bruce into a discussion about the merits of if he should breed... this is what I find offensive and have since this thread started. You say that if he had answered acceptably to you than you would have attempted to steer him in the right direction, but you also say you dont have a female for him, and since only an expert should breed (your words) I dont know why an expert would want you to steer them-since your not even involved in that breed.
I perceive your posts as activism. I dont defend Bruce, I do defend the rights of the dog fancy to make informed decisions. I encourage you to preach responsible dog ownership instead of spay/neuter mandates. My position is in line with that of the AKC's, your position is not.
Posts: 129 | Registered: Jan 2004
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NicoleLJ
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posted April 17, 2004 02:52 PM
I am posting this at the request of serveral friends of mine.
DO I GO HOME TODAY?
My family brought me home cradled in their arms.
They cuddled me and smiled at me and said I was full of charm.
They played with me and laughed with me and showered
me with toys.
I sure do love my family, especially the girls and boys.
The children loved to feed me, they gave me special treats.
They even let me sleep with them - all snuggled in the sheets.
I used to go for walks, often several times a day.
They even fought to hold the leash, I'm very proud to say.
These are the things I'll not forget - cherished memory,
because I now live in the shelter - without my family.
They used to laugh and praise me when I played with that old shoe.
But I didn't know the difference between the old ones and the new.
The kids and I would grab a rag, for hours we would tug.
So I thought I did the right thing when I chewed the bedroom rug.
They said that I was out of control, and would have to live outside.
This I did not understand, although I tried and tried.
The walks stopped, one by one; they said they hadn't time.
I wish that I could change things, I wish I knew my crime.
My life became so lonely, in the back yard, on a chain.
I barked and barked, all day long, just to keep from going insane.
So they brought me to the shelter,
but were embarrassed to say why.
They said I caused an allergy, then they each kissed me goodbye.
If I'd only had some classes, when I was just a little pup,
then I would have been a better dog when I was all grown up.
"You only have one day left." I heard the worker say.
Does that mean I have a second chance?
DO I GO HOME TODAY?
Lets all work together to stop this from happening to all the others in the shelters.
Nicole & Sheena
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Lets teach the public to spay and neuter pets and leave breeding up to the experts, to help decrease the thousands of animals destroyed monthly in shelters and pounds around the world.
Posts: 82 | From: Raymond. Alberta | Registered: Oct 2003
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NicoleLJ
Member
Member # 291
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posted April 17, 2004 03:13 PM
WHY ME?
I don't know why I'm homeless and no one cares for me,
I've tried to be a good little pup, good as any dog can be.
I had a home for a little while but one day I heard them say,
"You can't keep this female dog around", so they took me away.
They left me on a lonely road, no shelter and food for a pup,
I waited each day for their return, but now I've given up.
There's only one that knows I'm here, that knows of my awful plight,
A kitten that searches for food through the day, I hear her cry at night.
She lives beneath a pile of wood, so small, so scared, so thin.
To abandon a kitten so small and frail seems a terrible sin.
Help us dear God, this kitten and me, so hungry and so alone,
Guide some kind soul to find us and give us a home, sweet home.
Author Unknown
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Lets teach the public to spay and neuter pets and leave breeding up to the experts, to help decrease the thousands of animals destroyed monthly in shelters and pounds around the world.
Posts: 82 | From: Raymond. Alberta | Registered: Oct 2003
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NicoleLJ
Member
Member # 291
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posted April 17, 2004 03:15 PM
ANIMAL RESCUER'S CREED
I'll never bring about world peace.
I won't single-handedly save the rain forest.
I'm not a brain surgeon and I'll never transplant an
organ to save a life.
I don't have the ear of a powerful politician or world
power.
I can't end world hunger.
I'm not a celebrity, and God knows I'm not glamorous!
I'm not looked up to by millions around the world.
Very few people even recognize my name.
I'll never win the Nobel prize or end global warming.
There are a lot of things that I'll never do or
become.
But today I helped place an animal!
It was a small, scared, bundle of flesh and fur that
was dumped at a shelter, or on the streets by
unfeeling people who didn't care what happened to it,
but yet who were responsible for it having existence
in the first place.
I helped find it a loving home.
It now has contentment and an abundance of love.
A warm place to sleep and plenty to eat.
Two little girls have a warm and playful new friend
who will give them unending affection and teach them
about responsibility and love.
A wife and mother has a new free spirit to cuddle,
nurture and care for.
A husband and father has a furry friend to sit in his
lap at the end of a hard day of work and help him
relax and enjoy life.
And a sense of satisfaction, that when he is gone all
day at work, that there is a gentle spirit in his home
keeping watch over his family.
No, I'm not a rocket scientist. But today, I made a
difference!
And I'll do it tomorrow, too, if given a chance.
Author Unknown
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Lets teach the public to spay and neuter pets and leave breeding up to the experts, to help decrease the thousands of animals destroyed monthly in shelters and pounds around the world.
Posts: 82 | From: Raymond. Alberta | Registered: Oct 2003
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