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Topic: TO Goombaya -
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DaxAriel's toy
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posted April 18, 2004 10:44 AM
Not to interrupt the obvious difference of opinion between you & Nicole. Could you explain to me:
*What is YOUR opinion about breeding.
*Do you feel every dog owner has the right to breed thier animals?
*Do you believe that owners intending to breed their animals shouldn't need to have them checked for genetic problems?
*Do you think that any legislation that calls for the mandatory neutering of companion dogs an infrigement?
*Do you believe that licensing breeders is just another money grab and does not make those breeders more responsible.
Lastly,do you have any suggestions that would help reduce the amount of unwanted,uncared and abandoned animals which are destroyed every year.
Thank you in advance for clarifying the above issues for me.
Posts: 748 | From: Edmonton AB Canada | Registered: Mar 2004
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goombaya
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posted April 18, 2004 12:30 PM
I'll answer, but this is purely my opinion,, i do not hold others accountable to what I believe because I dont pretend to know more about breeding than others who may be more knowledgeable and have different practices.
"What is YOUR opinion about breeding"
I'd breed if, I had reasonable expectations that the resulting litter would better the breed, were going to be healthy, and had qualified homes for the pups.
To obtain this I have shown my dogs through to their akc championships, competed at the highest level (havent yet gone to westminster, although I could have in '02 when my sire was ranked nationally) had them field trained, ofa'd, cerf'd, blood tested, have done enough pedigree analysis to ease my comfort level, I use breeder contracts, health guarantees, have been mentored by breeders more experienced than myself, participate in rescue as called on, the list goes on and on... these are just some of the components that i feel go into a responsible breeding.. Disclaimer*I dont think ofa is better than pennhip or vice versa or that akc is better than UKC or vice versa, these are just the vehicles I have chosen. Also as a breeder you should make a lifeling comittment to a dog and be available to help its owners with whatever they need through the years.
"Do you feel every dog owner has the right to breed thier animals?"
Ultimately yes I do, I think that a claim can be made that if someone has demonstrated cruelty or recklessness than they should have that right stripped by a governing body.. but I would hope people can be taught to breed responsibly, and buyers can hold them accountable to some type of standard. I personally have little tolerance for poor breedings, wish they would end, hope that those that dont know better can be taught.
*Do you believe that owners intending to breed their animals shouldn't need to have them checked for genetic problems"
Need to? or be encouraged to? I dont think you can force it, but wish everyone would do it.
*Do you think that any legislation that calls for the mandatory neutering of companion dogs an infrigement?
I dont know about the use of the word "any" but generally yes I do consider it an infringement.
*Do you believe that licensing breeders is just another money grab and does not make those breeders more responsible"
No and Yes. I can envision a licensing program being effective if done correctly.
"Lastly,do you have any suggestions that would help reduce the amount of unwanted,uncared and abandoned animals which are destroyed every year."
This is the long hard road, EDUCATION! educate breeders, educate potential buyers, educate existing owners. Noone ever buys a puppy with the expectation that they are going to have to abandon it, or destroy it, its the end result of a failure in the chain somewhere. Everyone that gets a puppy has a vision of what their expectation is, help them reach it. Help them obtain the fulfillment they sought when they wanted a puppy. This is why I spend time with questions on a forum, with puppy buyers, with rescue, with anyone looking for help. Remember its a chain of failures.. the actual breeding may be a starting point in some cases.
You should know that I usually refer to the fancy of PUREBRED dogs.. Im not really sure how any breeding standard applies to mixed breed dogs, which i think you'll find is the bulk of animals that end up in shelters. With noted exceptions of course. AND before anyone flames me for saying that.. yes i know there are many very well loved wonderful mixed breed dogs out there, love those too... its just that you cannot apply the basic standard of breeding (to better a breed) to a mixed bred dog. Hope I said that correctly as I dont want to discount the value of those dogs to loving homes.
Posts: 129 | Registered: Jan 2004
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NicoleLJ
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posted April 18, 2004 12:39 PM
I am not insulting you I just feel I need to correct you a bit. With my work as a foster home and a volunteer trainer for serval rescues, pounds and shelters I know for a fact that the percentage of purebred dogs in shelters and put down every year is extremely high. As high as 60-65 percent. Some of the lucky ones end up being passed on to their breed specific shelters and rescues but most do not. You can disagree with me but I know this for a fact. I have not been doing this on and off. I do not work and I have been doing this and studying this problem for 12 years straight. Yes mix breeds are part of the problem but the bulk in shelters is not mixed breeds. It is badly bred pure breds. Thats why I am so adamant about spaying and neutering. Agian I am not insulting you I am just trying to make you more aware of the problem.
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Lets teach the public to spay and neuter pets and leave breeding up to the experts, to help decrease the thousands of animals destroyed monthly in shelters and pounds around the world.
Posts: 82 | From: Raymond. Alberta | Registered: Oct 2003
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goombaya
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posted April 18, 2004 12:48 PM
no insult taken... according to the Humane Society of The United States the percentage of dogs taken into shelters that are purebred is
%25. This may be different in Canada, and its still way too high a number.
Posts: 129 | Registered: Jan 2004
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NicoleLJ
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posted April 18, 2004 12:55 PM
yes my results are canadian. And yes both numbers are way too high.
Nicole LJ
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Lets teach the public to spay and neuter pets and leave breeding up to the experts, to help decrease the thousands of animals destroyed monthly in shelters and pounds around the world.
Posts: 82 | From: Raymond. Alberta | Registered: Oct 2003
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DaxAriel's toy
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posted April 18, 2004 01:40 PM
Thank you for your response. I see a lot of similar viewpoints between your's and Nicole's opinion
#1 Education - both you & Nicole have a lot of excellent experience and advice.
It would be nice to one day eliminate all the puppy mills, breeders out for a quick buck and those people who only own pets to abuse them.
Posts: 748 | From: Edmonton AB Canada | Registered: Mar 2004
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goombaya
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posted April 18, 2004 02:28 PM
Amen to that
Posts: 129 | Registered: Jan 2004
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ellierat
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posted April 18, 2004 05:06 PM
So here's the gist of it, you are in a way in agreement with what Nicole is saying.
Just that you don't feel it was right for Nicole to say this outright to Bruce on the forum?
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I love my labs.
Posts: 880 | From: australia | Registered: Feb 2004
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goombaya
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posted April 18, 2004 06:08 PM
Ellierat, I basically think the disagreement lies in the means to the same end. No doubt in my mind that Nicole is a responsible dog lover.
I never have attempted to impose the standards I use to determine a qualified breeding on anyone else. I do know what a good breeding is, and I abhor bad breedings.
If Nicole had said something like... "Mr. Bruce, please for the forum and perhaps to generate interest in potential females, might I suggest you provide for the forum a list of qualifications your male has that makes you think it is a valuable stud." I'd have never said a word.
She didnt say that though. She told him to neuter his dog if he didnt meet her requirements. It is inappropriate.
Posts: 129 | Registered: Jan 2004
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ellierat
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posted April 18, 2004 06:25 PM
Well I'nm totally disheartened at the moment, I am going off the forum for a while, I have been thinking about quiting breeding and just showing my Wally.
I hope you guys work this out, after all, we are all human, none of us perfect, the wording may have been unpolitically correct, but the goodness of the dog world was there.
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I love my labs.
Posts: 880 | From: australia | Registered: Feb 2004
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goombaya
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posted April 18, 2004 07:15 PM
Ellierat, I read of your problem with the puppy. I feel for you.
I would hope that you do not abandon the forum as your a wonderful uplifting voice here.
Rest assured that I have every confidence that Nicole has had good intentions.. no question that she's an advocate for dogs.
Posts: 129 | Registered: Jan 2004
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ellierat
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posted April 19, 2004 03:38 PM
Thanks Goombaya, how could I think of leaving the forum for good, you are all my friends here, I just needed to collect my thoughts a bit, and get myself together, the death of the pup and the consequent offer I gave the lady sort of blew me away a bit.
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I love my labs.
Posts: 880 | From: australia | Registered: Feb 2004
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