My Philosophy on Border Collies..

[HeelerHeaven]

Originally Posted by agilitydog

I actually strongly disagree with this number. In fact I often find the opposite to be true.
The dogs are there because they were bred with the drive to work but didn't have the owner capable of handling it.

Agreed AgilityDog..VAST majority of shelter dogs are this way..IMO. you find someone to mold that talent, you can have a heck of a dog on your hands.

[HeelerHeaven]

Originally Posted by doublebarr

We don't particularly like ACD's becuase they are loud and obnoxious. Working stock, being a herdsman, is about the least amount of stress you can put your animals through. A dog that will not bark his head off, but will stand his ground and bite HARD on the nose or heel or flank to get the stocks attention when they won't respect the eye is what we are after. We only want the "force" as a last resort, but we do want the "force" to be there if needed. I have been saved by a good BC before when a momma cow was barreling toward me because I was tagging her calf and it started bawling and the dog jumps in front of her, grabbs the nose and holds on till the cow stops from the endorphins relased from the "pain" of a nose hold. BC's tend to have "hold" much better than ACD's who want to nip-nip-bite-nip-nip between barks and yelps.

That said, unless you have a stock cross with a little ear, you cannot beat a ACD for driving cattle out of scrub and brush. They totally irritate a cow so much they HAVE to come out, LOL.

Interestingly DoubleBarr, Heelers are not suppossed to bark..the good ones who have the proper handling and drive are quiet. heelers are not for everybody, they take certain person to mold that raw energy and talent into a hard worker...they are extremly stubbourn and take a VERY firm hand, because unchecked, you will have problems.

Heelers are only suppossed to nip when the stock isnt doing what it's suppossed to do..it shouldnt be a constant battering on the animals.

My male was the best worker Ive been around. He moved more stock then I remember and was tough as nails..he took a good kick to the head and kept right on going. He worked til I retired him. my husbands family only uses heelers to work their stock..they also use heeler/pitbull crosses as a remarkable catch dog for catching the wild hogs that run rampant in Hawaii...

I know heelers arent everybody's favorite, but, provided they are handled right..they are remarkable dogs that get the job done correctly.

[circle c]

Originally Posted by HeelerHeaven

Interestingly DoubleBarr, Heelers are not suppossed to bark..the good ones who have the proper handling and drive are quiet. heelers are not for everybody, they take certain person to mold that raw energy and talent into a hard worker...they are extremly stubbourn and take a VERY firm hand, because unchecked, you will have problems.

Heelers are only suppossed to nip when the stock isnt doing what it's suppossed to do..it shouldnt be a constant battering on the animals.

My male was the best worker Ive been around. He moved more stock then I remember and was tough as nails..he took a good kick to the head and kept right on going. He worked til I retired him. my husbands family only uses heelers to work their stock..they also use heeler/pitbull crosses as a remarkable catch dog for catching the wild hogs that run rampant in Hawaii...

I know heelers arent everybody's favorite, but, provided they are handled right..they are remarkable dogs that get the job done correctly.

I agree with you 100%. I AM NOT a Heeler person. But, a good friend of mine is. I'm the BC person, he's the Heeler person. I find them too stuborn and too tough..... too independant... not that I dont like them, just would never own one.

[HeelerHeaven]

Originally Posted by circle c

I agree with you 100%. I AM NOT a Heeler person. But, a good friend of mine is. I'm the BC person, he's the Heeler person. I find them too stuborn and too tough..... too independant... not that I dont like them, just would never own one.

LOL..I think you do have to be a "heeler person" to get them going well and enjoy them.

A friend of mine only has BC's..he cannot STAND heelers, so I have to give him a hard time when I see him. hehehe

My male was the toughest dog Ive ever known and fiercely independent. you had tough, ornery or dangerous stock, he was your dog. He definantly had an aire of confidence about him, fast, tenicious and efficent! he wouldnt listen to my husband for beans though..he was my dog all the way, he is the one in my avatar.

Now Ive got Kate, a BC/Aussie mix..she is an absolute cakewalk compared to old Dakota! not to say all BC's or Aussies are "easy" but Kate certainly is, compared to Dakota.

[circle c]

Originally Posted by HeelerHeaven

LOL..I think you do have to be a "heeler person" to get them going well and enjoy them.

A friend of mine only has BC's..he cannot STAND heelers, so I have to give him a hard time when I see him. hehehe

My male was the toughest dog Ive ever known and fiercely independent. you had tough, ornery or dangerous stock, he was your dog. He definantly had an aire of confidence about him, fast, tenicious and efficent! he wouldnt listen to my husband for beans though..he was my dog all the way, he is the one in my avatar.

Now Ive got Kate, a BC/Aussie mix..she is an absolute cakewalk compared to old Dakota! not to say all BC's or Aussies are "easy" but Kate certainly is, compared to Dakota.

I hate working with them lol

And you're right...BC's ARE easy! Well, all mine have been a breeze to train!