Question on the miniature poodle standard

[MysticRealm]

Well as you all know I have a little poodle named Stryder. He was ment to be a toy but is 2 inches to big according to the canadian standard for toy poodles. He is 12 inches when he should be 10 and under(and he may still be growing a little). I know you can show toy poodles as miniatures if they grow too large and techniquely he IS a miniature seeing as the description of a miniature poodle is any poodle between 10-15 inches tall, but I also know that people prefer to have show miniatures between certain hieghts as well (even though the standard says that they only have to be between those height limits.
Sorry if I am being a little confusing. So my question is what height would you show a miniature at. I have heard they really want to see the dog between 13-15 inches. Has anyone here ever shown a toy as a mini or know what hieights are more favoured. Thanks.

[rutylr]

Miniature Poodle
The Miniature Poodle is 38.1cm (15ins.) or under at the highest point at the shoulder, with a minimum height in excess of 25.4cm (10ins.). Any Poodle, which is over 38.1cm or 25.4cm or under at the highest point at the shoulder, shall be excused from competition as a Miniature Poodle. If excused at three shows for this reason, the dog then has the same status as a disqualified dog.

Toy Poodle
The Toy Poodle is 25.4cm (10ins.) or under at the highest point at the shoulder. Any Poodle which is more than 25.4cm at the highest point at the shoulder shall be excused from competition as a Toy Poodle. If excused at three shows for this reason, the dog than has the same status as a disqualified dog.

The answer would be no you can not show a toy as a mini.

Donna

[MysticRealm]

Thanks but I think you misunderstood my question.
My poodle is from 2 toy poodle parents. he was registered when he was young as a toy due to the fact that he has 2 toy parents and so they thought he would be of toy size. since he is not of toy size he is techniquely a miniature.
He techniquelly could show as a mini to my understanding but he may not win due to the fact that judges prefer larger minis (13-15 inches) as compared to minis that are smaller (10-12 inches)
so my question was is it true that judges prefer the larger minis or whatever and has anyone shown there bred to be a toy but was not of toy size as a mini.

[MysticRealm]

o and a couple more questions. My dog unfortunately is on a non-breeding contract (not that I plan on breeding him but it could mean the the breeder has a little more say) If the breeder does not want me to show him he could say that I need to nueter the dog as to insure it shall not be bred (though I never signed anything that said I needed to nueter him so I don't know if he could do that)
I bought him from a lady who was helping him out (he was very sick at the time) and i gave her a clear picture of what I was loooking for in a pup. I wanted a pup of show quality. I said I didn't know if I would show it or not BUT if i wanted to I could. So to me that would mean he should be sold on a breeding contract but I this being the first papered purebred I have ever bought I did not even think to check what type of contract I was being told to sign.
the question is if you were the breeder of this dog and he was supposed to be a toy would you not want it shown? would you be able to say don't show it? and if you were me and the breeder didn't want me you to show it would you still?
I am gonnca contact the breeder with some questions but wanted to know your opinion on it.

[MysticRealm]

k so I went and read the actual breed standard from the CKC web page and it says
Miniature Poodle
The Miniature Poodle is 38.1cm (15ins.) or under at the highest point at the shoulder, with a minimum height in excess of 25.4cm (10ins.). Any Poodle, which is over 38.1cm or 25.4cm or under at the highest point at the shoulder, shall be excused from competition as a Miniature Poodle. If excused at three shows for this reason, the dog then has the same status as a disqualified dog.

Toy Poodle
The Toy Poodle is 25.4cm (10ins.) or under at the highest point at the shoulder. Any Poodle which is more than 25.4cm at the highest point at the shoulder shall be excused from competition as a Toy Poodle. If excused at three shows for this reason, the dog than has the same status as a disqualified dog.
it says that a POODLE (doesn't say a toy poodle) that is more than 10 inches at the shoulder shall be excused from competition as a toy poodle. that to me just means that it can't be shown as a toy but does not state at all that it should not be shown as a mini. andthe same thing goes for the mini that it can't be below or above the hieght limits or will be excused as a mini.
it also says on there that there is NO PREFERRABLE HIEGHT within the restrictions but I do think that judges would favor the larger poodle if a large and small poodle had the same qualities otherwise.

[rutylr]

If his parent were toys then he is a toy no matter what sizes.Dogs can not turn into another breed just because they are a different height.
You could not show him as a mini as his papers say toy.So he must be shown as a toy.
In beagles you can show a 13in in the 15in class,because they are just beagles not
13 inch beagles or 15 inch beagles.
Donna

[MysticRealm]

Thanks for the reply, but i know it CAN be done as the show people where I used to work have seen it done and know people who have done it. I was just wondering if the judges prefer the larger minis orthe smaller ones

[MysticRealm]

hey, I just looked at his papers and it just says poodle as the breed. so yay for that. The only thing that both his actual certificate and the non-breeding agreement says it that he cannot be bred. It says nothing about not being shown. I did not realize that he isn't even registered as a toy he is jsut registered as a poodle (i mean they have to do that b/c a poodle's breed isn't just what it looks like but is mostly based on it's hieght so if a Poodle is out of toy parents but grows like Stryder did then of course he is techniquely a mini, no question)

[minnie50]

Donna, am I correct in poodles that it's not just a matter of height; it shoud be a
square dog once you do come up with the correct height for toy or mini??

Also MR if the breeder sold you a pup less than 6 mos old stating that it was show
quality, she misrepresented the pup she was selling. Most ethical breeders require
limited registration and if when it older and turns out to be great then they can
change it and the breeder can decide if you can breed or show the dog. I saw
your last post and if it can't be bred why would you want to show???

[minnie50]

Originally Posted by MysticRealm

k so I went and read the actual breed standard from the CKC web page and it says
Miniature Poodle
The Miniature Poodle is 38.1cm (15ins.) or under at the highest point at the shoulder, with a minimum height in excess of 25.4cm (10ins.). Any Poodle, which is over 38.1cm or 25.4cm or under at the highest point at the shoulder, shall be excused from competition as a Miniature Poodle. If excused at three shows for this reason, the dog then has the same status as a disqualified dog.

Toy Poodle
The Toy Poodle is 25.4cm (10ins.) or under at the highest point at the shoulder. Any Poodle which is more than 25.4cm at the highest point at the shoulder shall be excused from competition as a Toy Poodle. If excused at three shows for this reason, the dog than has the same status as a disqualified dog.
it says that a POODLE (doesn't say a toy poodle) that is more than 10 inches at the shoulder shall be excused from competition as a toy poodle. that to me just means that it can't be shown as a toy but does not state at all that it should not be shown as a mini. andthe same thing goes for the mini that it can't be below or above the hieght limits or will be excused as a mini.
it also says on there that there is NO PREFERRABLE HIEGHT within the restrictions but I do think that judges would favor the larger poodle if a large and small poodle had the same qualities otherwise.

Hope CKC stands for Canadian Kennel Club and not Continental in your case.