OFA, Penn Hip

[GretaJack]

So much emphasis is put on to genetic testing when breeding, and I, personally, and a very firm believer in it, but I do think that somewhere along the line of "hobby" breeders or "part-time" breeder, some of this information is lost so I thought that I would share for you. And just to note, I do feel that "hobby/part-time" breeders are what a majority of our members here are considered, so I am not using that term to be derrogatory, but quite the contrairy. In another thread I read that OFA will not do a hip eval until a dog is 2 years old. That is not correct. They will do preliminary reading on a puppy as young as 4 months old. This is to prevent a breeder from sticking the time, money and training into a puppy that will test out at 2 years old as not breedable by their standards. Here is what the OFA has to say about prelim testing.
http://www.offa.org/hipprelim.html

It is correct in saying that they will not give a final grade of hips (excellent, good, fair, borderline, mild, moderate, servere) until the dog is over 24 months.

It was incorrectly stated that a dog must be minimumally 24 months for a PennHip. PennHip believes that the PennHIP method can be reliably performed on a dog as young as 16 weeks old. Passive hip laxity at 16 weeks correlates highly with later hip laxity. In other words, a dog's hip laxity at 16 weeks will be much the same at one year, two years or even three years.
http://www.pennhip.org/

And it is also true that one single vet can give an educated diagnosis on a dog's hip status. The vet that I used to work for has once been an evaluator for OFA. If she did hip xrays and there was ever a doubt in hip quality she would let the owner know prior to submittable saving the owner a lot of money. So if you have faith in your vet and their knowledge and education, take their advice for what it is worth, yet don't let it replace that of an educated nationallly approved group of vets. In other words, most vets can see HD, yet they have a hard time telling you if your dogs hips are excellend, or good, but can easily tell if they are mild, moderate or severe. If your vet says they look good, invest the cost and submitt for approval, if they say they are not great or have poor quality save everyone the heartache and their pocketbooks and fix your dog.

[rottiegirl]

What you have said is correct, however you have glossed over several details. OFA will NOT issue official results untill a dog is two years old. and the AKC will NOT recognize Pennhip, becouse there have been too many unreliable factors in pennhip. I was speaking to a judge yesterday who breeds English Pointers, she took in a rescue who was having hip problems, Pennhip gave the dog an passing hip rating. She then tested the dog OFA, and saw the xrays herself this time... the dog had almost NO hip socket.

There is an obvious reason why most vets reccomend waiting untill a dog is at LEAST 2 to do the hip tests... it's just more acurate.

I only do OFA with my dogs, and we have been breeding QUALITY Bernese Mtn dogs for a decade, we only breed what we show, anything we have ever bred has been a certified Therapy dog, and have had testing for the genetic Diseases common in Berners. and We WILL NOT breed a female untill she is at least 3, Bernese are slow maturing dogs, and as we all know no dog should be bred untill they are AT LEAST 2.

[rutylr]

We had a vet come to our kennel club and tell us all about penn hip.
After seeing what the dog has to go thru to be penn hiped I will never do it.The dog has to be totally under,something I don't like having to do with my breed if I don't have to.
In OFA you don't have to send in the x-rays if they are bad(but you should).In penn hip the vet has to send them in or they will loose their licence.
OFA is done at 2 and you are done(unless you want to redo them,in penn hip they want you to do the dog every 2 years.
Yes they can be done early,but I know of people doing puppies and if their hips are bad then they fix the problems with surgery and have the dog redone and then use these dogs for breeding.
I do the OFA also and only breed dogs who pass the test they are given.
Donna

[GretaJack]

Neither organization is without fault, that is for sure. We used to do a lot of PennHip and OFAs where I used to work. I am with you Rutylr, PennHip seems scary and I do not agree with anesthetizing a dog without just cause. But I have seen it all when it comes to results. I have seen OFAs come back as excellent and PennHips are poor. We have also OFA the same dog numerous times and one time received a mild dysplasia and then the next time a grade of good. The position of the dog can have a lot to do with it also.

But so that it is known, that both OFA and PennHip will evaluate a dog younger than two. That is my point

[rutylr]

I know quite a few people who pre-limb their dogs thru OFA at the age of one year,(to see if it's worth putting more money into the dog).
I use to pre limb,but since I'm more about having fun showing the dog then worrying about wasting time on a dog I might not breed.I wait till just before I breed to test the dog.If they pass I breed,if they would not I don't.
Now If I had a dog that was limping or looked to be in pain,I would x-ray to rule out HD or a torn ACL and then go from there.
Donna

[barnjess]

Its confusing when we all live in different places, the B.V.A does the scoring here and they use an anesthethia which i find worrying, dogs can be tested from 1 year with no upper age limit, but they can not be re-submitted for scoreing./ the O.F.A does cover the U.K but i dont think the kennel club will accept it as the O.F.A will not accept the scoring done by the B.V.A so the dog would have to go through two forms of scoring if you wanted it to be regestered with both

[barnjess]

i am not sure but I dotn think the Penn Hip covers here?

[rutylr]

I know of people who send there x-rays over seas,if they think they wont pass OFA.
Ofa reads both hips and gives you a score,over seas they read each hip and score them seperate.
Most breed clubs here ask if you are going to use an import for breeding ,it have it's hips redone here ,after it has been here 6 months.
They reconize the others,but to belong to a COE club you must have an OFA on the hips.
Donna

[barnjess]

So what do you feel, is best getting them just scored once, by one regestry or by a few different ones?

[rutylr]

If I could afford it I would do all I could,but with limited funds I just OFA.
Donna