Ellierat or Sgour or any one, I need info

[GretaJack]

Since I have never owned a female other than Greta and she was fixed at 4 months old I need someone else's expertise. A boarder down at the horse barn has a Lab/Springer cross. She finished her first heat cycle about 2-3 weeks ago. Her owner comes to me on Saturday concerned she might be pregnant. The dog is always with him, but says that he does tie her out to go potty. I told him that was all it took. So anyway he never saw any males get to her but it could have happened. I look at her teets and they are not just swollen, but sagging. One of the other boarder said that is normal for heat, but I honestly have never seen that except for a pregnant dog. Also her female end is extremely swollen. Is that a sign of pregnancy? Some one else commented about a split cycle? Any ideas?

It just concerned me greatly if she is pregnant because she is very young but also her owner is going to be in jail in a month for anywhere from 4-6 months for a DUI. His elderly father was going to be watching the dog while he was gone. And of course, this guy have not much money and doesn't necessarily want to take her to the vet for an ultrasound.

[sgour]

Well, if she completed her heat cycle 3 weeks ago and her back end and teats are still swollen, then it sounds to me like puppies. That was the first sign that Jada was pregnant. ABout now she is probably starting to lose her appetite, and will be very clingy. The only real way to confirm is to take her to the vet for a scan or blood test. She is not far enough along yet where the pregnancy can't be terminated. She can be spayed now and the pups will be removed along with everything else.

It sounds to me like she's pregnant, so I would highly recommend an appointment for immediate spaying before she gets to far and he will have no choice but to let her have them. It could also be a phantom, but for the better of the dog I would have her spayed either way.

Good luck to your friend.

Shannon

[GretaJack]

What bothers me is the guy who owns her would love for her to have puppies (ugh, biting my tongue). He was so sad when I told him I had Jack neutered. I would have never bred mine to his anyways but I guess I am too opinionated at times that I save myself the argument and just walk away. I know that he will not have the pregnancy terminated if she is pregnant, not matter what is best for this dog. Thank you very much for the info Sgour

[sgour]

That is unfortunate b/c if he is going to jail in one month, he will not even be there for the birth, or to raise them. If he does not have much money, then there is NO WAY he can afford to raise these puppies. SHe could have between 6-10, that is going to be very costly. And I am fairly sure that there is no way his elderly father is going to be able to prepare an area, clean up after them, feed them, take them to the vet for vaccinations and insure the mother has adequate care.

SHe should be eating a high quality puppy food now, which by the sounds of it she is a puppy and is probably already eating it. She will need proper exercise to maintain muscle tone, and a lot of love. He will need a whelping box, thermometer, extra blankets and towels, a bulb syringe, antiseptic, scissors and puppy formula (in case something happens to mom). I highly doubt that an elderly man is going to want to stay up and help deliver these puppies, so maybe he should talk this over with his father before he commits him to such a large responsibility. Hopefully his common sense will kick in and he'll realize that this is bad for the dog and for his finances, especially in his current situation and will terminate the whole thing.

Or we could always hope this is just a phantom, and nothing will come of it.

Shannon

[GretaJack]

If he decides to get her pregnancy checked and she is indeed pregnant, I can guaruntee that the dog will end up with one of us. Even though I don't agree with a lot that this man has done, he does have a good heart, deep down. Too many of us that board there love this dog and wouldn't want anything to happen to her. I just wish that he would have her fixed. I tried talking him into it from day one. I don't want to offend anyone but I just don't believe in breeding mix breeds. Obviously, they are not show quality, they have not been genetically tested for breed defects, etc. Well, I have my fingers crossed that she is not pregnant, even though I know better, and that her owner takes the responsibility to make sure she has the proper care that she is going to need if she is. Thanks again. Katie

[sgour]

Unfortunately we cannot make decisions for others, and the only thing we can do is help to make the best fo the situation. If he does insist on going through with a pregnancy (if there is one) then all you can do is help to make sure that mother and pups are well cared for, which I am sure you will do.

At a young age there is a possibility that mom will not care for the pups, since she is a pup herself. That of course will require hours of bottle feeding, like in AndreaMoons case. If he does not decide to have her tested, at around 50-55 days or so, you may feel movement. Jada's pups moved like crazy!! I am sure you know that the normal gestation period for dogs is 63 days (give or take). Also, you may notice a clear discharge @ 4-5 weeks, that is a sure sign of pregnancy. As far as I know, there is no discharge with a phantom.

Well, you have us here for any advice, and I am sure ellierat may have some more signs and symptoms to look for that may help you confirm.

[erdog3]

Hold the thoughts, I see your concern GretaJack, but after experiencing this phantom with Ell's anything is possible.
She had a swollen vulva, and teats down.
How many cycles has the dog had, I have observed phantoms seem to start when the dog is over 2 years of age, not so much before then.
There was no discharge with Ell's or Sophie's phantoms, but definately in the last 2 weeks of actual pregnancy. It is like a gooey, milky clear consistancy.
The nesting instinct was also different. Appetite loss the same.
One day a genious will invent a pregnancy test for dogs the same as humans and make our jobs much, much, easier..waiting for the day.
I know how you feel about mixed breeds, I have had many ask to use Wally against golden retreivers...my answer..NO.

[GretaJack]

Ellie--Mandy is only 9-10 months old, so just a puppy herself. I love the idea of a doggie pregnancy test. I am going to make millions! Thanks for the idea!

[erdog3]

9-10months, I would hazard a guess and say she is most likely pregnant in this case.
Some dogs get phantoms after the first heat, and thereafter for every cycle.
But I have not seen it myself, both mine were much older.
Good luck on inventing the test, let me know when it's ready, I'll have the first order!