Goldie and Blackie - new pups in Iran

[Marty]

I'm an American living in Tehran - I have some experience with dogs (growing up in NC, I always had one or two) but none with puppies, and I need a bit of help.

I'll quickly go over what we've been through so far.
We were planning to get a pair of puppies when we buy a house with a garden (in the next six months) so this all came as a surprise. I wanted a breed which could live outside, but I'm not picky as to sex or pedigree - just a pair of good pets for the family which would cure my daughter of her doggie-phobia, and some extra insurance against the house thieves who abound in Tehran. Just having a good sized dog in your yard here reduces the chances of theft about 50%.

Three weeks ago, at about 10pm, an acquaintance who was moving to the US rang my doorbell. I answered it to see him standing there with two pups (one black, one yellow) in a box - surprise!
(We've temporarily named them Goldie and Blackie)

I couldn't say "no"...even though it was too early and I didn't have that garden. The man was leaving for the US the next day, these were the last two of a litter of 8, and I shudder to think of what would happen to them if I hadn't taken them. The man told me that he had an Afghan groundskeeper who wanted Blackie. When he saw what the groundskeeper did, he put them in a box and drove them straight to my house.

Evidently, Afghans have some sort of custom - they cut the tips of the ears of a dog. Don't ask me why, I chalk it up to ignorance. He probably heard of docking but got it all wrong, and I would like to see how that man would feel if I cut his ears off! The man at my door told me to just put some betadine on the ear.

So, I took them in. Upon closer examination, I could see that Blackie had a big problem - his left ear was swollen to about twice its normal size, and he couldn't stand for me to even touch it. The right ear was healing and dry, but the left one was pouring out pus and fluid. He was also much smaller than Goldie, obviously he had been sick for a long time.

The next morning, I called a vet - the only one I know of in my area (yet - I'm going to search around and see if I can find another one, though). He would be out of the office until 6pm, so I had to wait until then. In the meantime, I fed them milk and a bit of ground meat, bathed both of them (they stunk to high heaven), and just let them sleep in a box in the bedroom. This was the first day they had been separated from their mother, and they were so good - they only ate and slept. I think they were just a little over 1 month old. Once in a while, they would try to play, but it always ended up with Goldie touching Blackie's ear and the play would stop.

I decided to try flushing that ear with betadine instead of just dabbing it with cotton. So, while Mr.M held Blackie, I poured it in (he was so good and still, I think he knew that we were helping him). I then put him down on the floor, he scratched and shook his head, and guess what:
a big, fat maggot fell out of the ear. Holy moleys!
We dropped the betadine a second time and watched: worms swam to the top for air. So, I laid that puppy down on his side and he quickly went to sleep. I didn't dare put tweezers down into his ear, so I watered down the betadine to about 50%, dropped it in his ear, and started plucking maggots out when they came to the top - that afternoon, I pulled about 20 big fat ones out of his ear. In the next two days, I pulled out a total of about 40. It looked like they were on the edge of turning into flies, they were quite fat and I could see the black fly inside...so you can imagine how much pain that little pup had been in, probably for weeks.

That night, the vet gave him the first in a series of four antibiotic shots. I'm wondering about that vet, though - he only looked at the outside of the ear and didn't act like it was very disturbing. He said that he runs accross that in farm animals frequently, that there is a medicine for killing the maggots, but the puppy is too small for it - after all, it's a poison and could kill the pup. He said that he would treat the infection and any worms left in the ear would dry out and fall out when the ear healed.

So, the ear is well now, or at least it looks that way. I'm still disturbed that the vet doesn't look inside - when I asked him to, he got a little pen-flashlight and looked at the outside (I could do that!). Shouldn't he have an instrument to check inside the ears? Every time I went in for a shot, he also wound a piece of cotton around forceps and cleaned the outer part of the ear (which made the puppy scream in pain) - was that necessary? I cleaned them myself with a q-tip and a gentler hand.

Now that the swelling has gone down, I can see what that man did: at first, I thought he had cut just the tips of the ear-flaps. The left ear has some of the flap left - but when I look at the right ear, he cut off the whole ear, right down to the quick. I'm wondering if the dog will have problems in the future with that...it looks like there's nothing to hang over and protect the exposed organs of the ear. He also has a sort of cauliflower ear now.

Goldie is fine and frisky, but I can tell that Blackie is the dominant of the two even though he's still smaller. His coat is also a bit dull and not as full as Goldie's but I'm hoping that he'll catch up. Either that or he takes after the father while Goldie takes after the mother - and I don't know what breed either of them are! But they play every minute they're awake, and Blackie is getting Goldie back for all the times he jumped on that sore ear - it's funny to watch them play, but it's also all in fun. They don't hurt each other and I hear no more whining or crying.

OK - besides the ear problems, I have some questions about raising a dog in a foreign country. There's no dog food on sale here, and no products made for dogs on the shelves. If I need something like flea shampoo, I have to buy it at the vet's (he brings it in from another country). Everyone here buys s***** from the butcher and cooks them up for their dogs - will the dog be getting sufficient vitamins with that diet? I tried giving them some baby vitamins (5 drops with their milk) and they vomit the milk back up after drinking it. It's also quite expensive to feed a dog that way - people mix bread with the meat, rice, etcetc...what should I avoid feeding them when they get bigger?

I've been searching around the net to see what breed they are. As far as I can tell (sometimes it's hard to tell with puppies), they look like Anatolian Shepherds - just like the pups at the top of this page:
http://www.anatolian-shepherd-dogs.org/
which is a common breed here. Luckily, they're made for all sorts of weather, so they'll be great outside dogs (I'll provide a warm place for them to sleep). But considering their age (probably about two months old now), do you think they can now live outside? As I said, I have no garden. Mr.M will not keep a dog in the house. At the moment, they're up on the roof - we have a large flat roof, and he's built them a little house right around the chimney which is warm but not hot. The weather is fair now and I'm not really concerned unless it rains (which is infrequent), but it will probably turn to rain and perhaps snow in the next two months. Are they old enough to live like that?

I have more questions, but that's all I can think of at the moment. I would appreciate some advice from you experts, no one here seems to know much about dogs!

[Marty]

oh my, I didn't type a bad word there...they buy s*c*r*a*p*s from the butcher. I don't know how that will look when I post, but they buy the pieces of meat still on the bone or pieces which will be thrown away - I got a huge back of chicken bones with meat on them today and am boiling them. I'll clean the chicken off the bone for them to eat and discard the bones.

[erdog3]

I see your concern, how awful for your pups. Glad you have a warm heart and have taken them in. It must have been quite upsetting to see the maggots, one would have been turned off for sure, but you hung in there. Good for you.

First question...How old are the pups? It matters when it comes to feeding solids or milk.
What kind of milk are you giving and what vitamins?
Yes they can be give alternatives in their feed, but I need to know how old they are first.

[Marty]

Hi ellierat, thanks for answering.

When he dropped them off, the man said they were "a little over a month old"...I've had them almost three weeks now, so I would estimate that they're about two months old now.

I'm giving them cow milk 4 times a day (they each drink about 1/2 cup each time) and a bit of boiled ground beef/lamb with the juices (also about 1/2 cup each time) twice a day.

The vet told me to give them baby vitamins, five drops per day - but as I said, I mixed them with the milk and they vomited them. The bottle he prescribed says Multivitamin Oral Drops - would you like me to list the vitamins? I was thinking that maybe they just don't mix with milk, or maybe the pups are too young to digest them.

[Marty]

BTW - ellierat, you're in Australia?
haha - check my occupation, I've got lots of friends there!

[ChandraRae]

I will NOT step on ellierat's posting toes when it comes to baby care because she knows a million times more than me.. I will say when we lived in Zaire with our Sheltie, we couldn't get fresh, as in less than 2 yrs old LOL, dry dog food and our Sheltie was allergic to canned food. He was full grown already and we fed him boiled rice, ground beef, carrots and peas. He did really well on that. Boil the rice, and the meat and then add the carrots and peas and cook until they're soft. Shoes LOVED it!

[Dax]

I'm not going to give puppy advise because Ellie is the official puppy queen but couldn't you order dog food online from Europe and have it shipped? Large bags of good quality dry can be mixed with fresh ingredients to make them last longer.

As for your ear problems, I think the vet is going by the assumption that maggots eat rotting/decaying flesh. Once the ear is healthy there's nothing for them to eat so they die. It's not very appealing though. A dog house on the roof doesn't sound like a bad set up temporarily. Make sure they have plenty of shade & water. And start work on your garden.

[HeartSong]

They should be fine living outside as long as they have a house that protects them from the environment such as wind and rain. Ellierat will be real good at telling you what you need to feed them now as puppies. For when they get older we can help you out but there is also this Yahoo group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cooking_for_Dogs/ where everyone on there cooks their dogs diet. No talk of raw foods is allowed though. They are really good at being able to tell you what nutrients are needed and what foods provide them. Also, they have documents on what foods are toxic, how to balance your dog's diet and stuff like that.

[erdog3]

The vitamin drops can cause vomiting, don't know why, it happens in our own children too, the combination, cows mild and vitamin drops.
They are now 2 months you say. They are old enough to cope without milk now. You can go onto a full adult (puppy) diet. Cut the milk out altogether.
So as everyone suggests, go for one of the above, you could add the vitamins to this meal, but you will not get the calcium.
Can you get hold of any calcium powder to add. They need that more than anything at that age for good bone growth.

Yep I am from Oz, I will check your profile. Have you ever been to Victoria in Oz. That is where I live.

[Marty]

Sorry for checking in late, we took the pups to our mountain house yesterday and they had a great time! I feel that they need more than that roof - no matter how many toys I put up there for them to play with, nothing can take the place of grass, trees, and leaves. I've found that their world is still small, though - they're not comfortable in new places and it takes them a while to get the courage to explore new surroundings...
I make sure that a box with a blanket is available (turned on its side so they can come and go), and that seems to be their bit of security. They always return to the box and curl up together.

You're all great, thanks so much for the advice.
HeartSong, I've sent in the application to join the Cooking for Dogs group.
Chandra, speaking of peas and carrots, this whole experience has tought me something: my own diet is going to branch out, I tasted their food today and it was delicious! LOL
I never buy the cheaper unusual chicken parts at the store (giblets, etc) but thanks to the pups, I've found something new for myself as well.

Dax, I would order some dry food online, but I'm not able to buy online - (not getting into politics here), VISA cancelled my card when I gave them a Tehran address because of the US embargo. We're looking for a house with a garden, but it's like looking for a house & garden in New York City - in a crowded urban area, very expensive and hard to find - that's why it's taking a while to find what we want. But we will, preferably sooner than later.

ellierat, I'll try mixing the vitamins with their meat dishes to see if they can better tolerate the combination...and I'll check with the pharmacies here for calcium powder.

Many thanks for your help.