Food recall/Lepto thought

[whimzikal]

OK I just had this thought so bare with me. I now know 8 dog owners who's dogs have Lepto. I know atleast 4 were given proper vaccines.
My thought is that many of the symptoms of Lepto match the many of the symptoms of the food recall. I was thinking maybe many of these dogs diagnosed with Lepto may have actually been effected by the recalled foods... here is what I found for symptoms, I did a simple quick search, what do you all think?

Recall symptoms:
Following feedings of the product, some cats and dogs refused further feedings, while others exhibited signs of renal failure (signs of renal failure include loss of appetite, lethargy and vomiting) and others died from renal failure.

Lepto symptoms:
Symptoms are typical of kidney and liver disease, and can include, fever, loss of appetite, muscle pain, dehydration, vomiting, diarrhea and bleeding. Some dogs will have an increased water consumption and urine output while others may have a decreasing output of urine. Jaundice may occur, and the dog may be painful in the abdominal area or in the lower back. In extremely acute cases, a dog may suddenly go into shock and succumb.”

[sam5719]

interresting that could be the case not lepto at all but food recall .

[whimzikal]

That's what I was kinda wondering, wouldn't that be something... thier statistics would change drasticly.

[Country-Side Br]

Except that they discovered the reason for the kidney failure was due to rat poisoning.
Heidi's dog was on the same food I feed (Canidae) and she also never fed the canned, which the recall is also stemmed from. And, it also makes a difference as to what strain of Lepto the dogs/cats had. Most dogs vaccines only cover 2 of the major strains (Canicola and Icterohaemorrhagiae).

[Bosley Slave]

The Lepto vacine is only about 30% effective I have been told.

[DogtorJ]

Hi Whimz,

You may not be too far off the mark in that many of the things we see are actually multiple factors coming together. This helps to explain why some are affected and others are not. If aminopterin is such a powerful toxin in the concentration at which they found it, why didn't it kill more? (Although the number is rising, unfortunately). I have realized that many of the things we call "causes" are actually triggers OR they are the straw that breaks the camel's back. We must look at things this way in order to explain the spectrum of illness we see resulting from those "causes" of disease. This sounds rather academic but many of our "idiopathic" conditions (suc as epilepsy) would be better understood if we took this "syndrome" approach.

The following explains:


Here is a comment I received:

They've been reporting that Aminopterin levels of at least 40 ppm were detected in the tainted cat food.

According to a relative of mine (who is a chemist in the pharmaceuticals industry), this is a high- and extremely dangerous- quantity of this particular drug.

I found a bit of an abstract from an article posted in the Annals of the NY Academy of the Sciences suggesting that aminopterin was found to be toxic to rats and chicks in quantities as low as 3 ppm, which is in line with the numbers proposed by said relative.

As far as the death toll, according to petconnection.com's tally, they've received over 1,300 complaints of pet deaths believed to have been associated with these foods. (They are no longer reporting tallies for sickened pets who have survived.) These numbers have continued to grow by the hundreds daily since PC set up their database.

Additionally, some individuals who have gotten through to the FDA are reporting that the representatives they spoke with have discussed totals 'in the thousands'.. and I read earlier today that they've received somewhere in the neighborhood of 4,400 complaints thus far. Anecdotal evidence, to be sure- but it's pretty clear at this point in time that there have been far more than 16 casualties at this time.

As far as IgA nephropathy related to gluten sensitivity, my cat has been eating products containing wheat gluten for much of his life without incident. He became ill (acute renal failure) almost immediately after having consumed a relatively small quantity of the recalled food. I have been offering him another cat's dry prescription diet as he recovers, because I'm leery of purchasing any pet food at this time. He has shown no sign of problems on the prescription food, despite the fact that it too contains wheat gluten. As such, while gluten may be a serious problem for some animals, I'm inclined to believe that the gluten itself was not the problem for him.

Just a few thoughts.

Here is my response:

Thanks. I do now believe it was the aminopterin, especially with the numbers now being posted. That was the illogical part of all of this....the small number being affected. But, as far as the IgA nephropathy I mentioned, it is a fact that gluten can do this and this point needs to be remembered because this story is much bigger than the poison and people are starting to see that.

The fact that a pet was eating this gluten-containing food all along may just be the cofactor in why they died when the aminopterin was introduced. There has to be a reason why some were affected and died and while others didn't. It also helps to explain why cats (carnivores not well suited to grains)were so much more affected. This story is likely to be the "syndrome" effect that I talk so much about, where multiple factors come together to produce the disease state, such as in the case of epilepsy, cancer, MS and many other disease states.

For example, carcinogens don't cause cancer in most cases. Viruses do. But, the viruses alone don't do it. In fact, some need helper viruses to do this. But that alone doesn't result in cancer. We have to have an incompetent immune system ("governor") for cancer to develop. It takes a fair amount of wrong-doing to end up with an incompetent immune system, such as a poor diet (for quite some time), air pollution, lack of sleep, immune-suppressive drugs or chemicals, etc etc. So, the combination of all of these things results in cancer, which used to occur in the elderly and now occurs in the young. Why? We all know the answer to that one.

God in His infinite wisdom and love actually made it quite hard for His beloved Creation (man and animals) to get sick. It's just that WE'VE made it sooooo much easier with our harmful diets, crazy lifestyles and polluted environments. Most people can see that truth, I believe.

John

[whimzikal]

Dogtor J that was enlightening, thank you much!

[weezyNollie]

So Whim are you wondering if Lepto is being misdiagnosed? Or are you wondering if the food recall is causing Lepto?

I'm thinking it's the first part. To be honest, lots of things can go misdiagnosed and mislabeled. Take Addisons... the signs are vomiting, diarrhea, abnormal bloodwork. That could be resolved with just some fluids, antibiotics, or it could be diagnosed with the abnormal bloodwork as liver failure, IMHA (immune mediated hemolytic anemia), etc.

I think your onto something Whim, but i do think it's somewhat common for misdiagnosis. Which is why it's the vets responsibility to do as much diagnostics to then try and treat the patient. As opposed to looking at some blood work seeing the poor kidney values and then just saying, oh that's kidney failure. It needs to be taken one step further and see why the kidney failure. Of course there isn't an answer to everything, that's why it's called "practicing" medicine. But, it's our responsibility in the veterinary world to give good service (it's our ethical, moral, obligation) and not just stop at point A. I would hope that the vets who are diagnosing (or misdiagnosing) leptospirosis are doing lepto titers and confirming their suspicions and not just lumping signs together!

[djbutler]

You would have to ask first if any recalled food was used. Many diseases manifest the same symptoms which is why I don't envy the vets job. You need to take your concerns to your vet. Hopefully he is not the type to feel threatened about your questioning his diagnoses. If he is, there is always a second opinion.

[EmmaGirl]

I, too, think you make a great point Whimz. I didn't consider the chance of similarly presenting symptoms (of 2 separate illnesses) actually be leaning toward one IN SOME CASES.

I also agree with DoctorJ in that we have transformed healthy and organic foods into polluted and chemically filled substances that eventually can do more harm than good.

EG