QUALITY BRED DOGS, are you getting what you paid for???

[erdog3]

Seen as we are all on the topic of breeding, showing, should you breed, who is a good breeder, who is in it for the money, yadda, yadda, some cold hard facts. Some of the opinions given on other threads have annoyed me, unless you have acutally bred dogs and shown them, then you don't know the half of it.

IN MY OPINION...and I state OPINION, yes come back at me if you want I am ready for it.
I have shown and bred.

The whole thing is RIGGED.....YEP!! IT IS.
You think because you are buying a dog from a registered show breeder that you are getting some sort of quality. Well I guess maybe you are, they have all the tests done, the right papers, well they have to, or they would not be able to register the litter and get the exuberent price they ask.
If you have been around breeders and show people then try to blast me to the ends of the earth and not admit that what I am about to tell the lay person when it comes to pure bred, show bred dogs if this is not the COLD HARD TRUTH.

SOME are good breeders, yes they want only the best, but most get caught up in the prestige, they will go to no ends to put their dogs through weeks and weeks of travelling, cages, yep!! cages, day in day out just to get that marvelous ribbon. It is nothing for a dog at a show to spend 24/7 in a crate when showing. This can take months to get the right judges and the awards. There are not many just dedciated to the love of their dogs. When they get it, they breed and breed, not twice a year but at least once a year, just to get the money back that they have put in to cover the costs of all the accommodation etc for showing. It is very expensive. Their dogs become a comodoty, no longer a pet.
So you go to a show, most of the judges are all the same (unless you get the occassional one of international judges), they don't like your dog, you don't attend a show that, that particular judge is at AGAIN.
These breeders even switch papers, yep it happens, they have a dog that is no good, they get rid of it, no conscience, it is not a PET, it is a breeding dog, if it does no good at a show, they discard it. They have another dog that might be alright but doesn't have Championship breed lines, they use the papers on the one that did.

What I am trying to say here in a nutshell, is, just because a dog has papers that have Championship written on them, there is no way to tell that it really is a Champion. Genetic testing is the only way. The system is ripe with FRAUD.
So look at your purebred dog, you think you got it from a reputable breeder, he/she has all the papers, but are his/her parents really the ones stated on those papers? How do you know?

When it comes to the cold hard truth, a GOOD BREEDER is someone who CARES about dogs.
So when you next judge someone who breeds a purebred dog, ask yourself, did the breeder you purchased your dog from offer any of the following things.

HEALTH GUARANTEE.
NO QUESTIONS ASKED MONEY BACK GUARRANTEE.
FULL BACK UP WITH TRAINING......... FROM PIDDLING TO SHOWING.
FULL OPTION OF RETURNING A PUP NO LONGER WANTED, NO MATTER WHAT AGE THE DOG IS.
FULL EMAIL, PHONE CALL, FREEDOM OF CONTACT ANY TIME DAY OR NIGHT.
LIST OF ALL MEDICAL, WORMING, VACCINATIONS, ETC ON PURCHASE.
ENOUGH FOOD TO LAST FOR 3 FULL DAYS.
NOT TO MENTION FULL TESTS OF BOTH PARENTS.

You want to know who is a backyard breeder and who is only in it for the money!!! Yes I am annoyed at some opinions.
BACKYARD BREEDERS can be FULL REGISTERED SHOW BREEDERS, believe me.

I know I will ruffle a few feathers here, but as far as I am concerned there are two types of breeders FULL STOP.
Those who CARE.
Those who are in it for the MONEY!!

[Catalyst]

Thank you Ellie! Very well put.

I totally know where you're coming from.
Fortunately for me, the breeder we brought Dream off had all of those things. You probably know her (F. Zammit).
I've heard of some underhanded things going on in the ring, a bottle of expensive Bourban being passed to the judge for example.
It's all totally corrupt. You have to be known and be in the right circles to win. Which is horrible, but you have to stick it out if you want that Ch. behind your dogs name.

As you know, I do it for the love of the dog and handling. I have seen numbers of horrible looking dogs grab the challange because of who was handling them and not the dog itself.
The whole showing ordeal needs to go under scrutiny and cleaned up.
Not only that, but the breeders need to clean up their acts too.

[weimlover0816]

May I also add that just because a litter is registered does not mean they are "quality" dogs. I have said this before, but the AKC and other similar organiztions are simply registration centers and nothing more. The registration is not a health guarantee, it simply means that the parents were AKC registered, and thus the litter is eligible for registration. You don't need to have all the health checks and all that to register a litter. So, you could have the prettiest registration papers and still have a dog that is afflicted with genetic disorders and the like. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble.

(ellierat, no feathers rumpled here, just so you know!!)

[weimlover0816]

Originally Posted by Catalyst

You have to be known and be in the right circles to win. Which is horrible, ....

This is exactly true, and exactly why my husband and father haev, so far, decided not to enter our dogs into and field trials. They are both good hunters, Remington is actually incredible and I'm sure would blow everyone away, but no one "knows" them. Even though Rem is from the LLuellen (sp??) English Setter line and his parents/grandparents, etc are champion hunters, Rem most likely will never have these titles to his credit. Does that make him any less of a hunting companion and pet?? H.ELL NO!! He's still great, as are all of our furry friends!!

[Moo]

It's terrible to look at people who think they have a purebred dog, and I can just look and tell that it's a mix or doesn't even have a trace of the breed in it. People stick a label that says "Coton de Tulear" on any little white dog, and it instantly appreciates. The sad thing is that people buy them.

Though I am happy to say that Kirby came with all the things that Ellie listed, plus his material basics (bowls, combs, food, crate, toys, blanket, etc).

[crazy_for_corgis]

Well said ellierat! Yes, there are sooo many politics at dog shows where I live. I mainly watch the corgis & know of most of the breeders, so the politics that take place are just so dang visible! It's insane! If you don't know who's-who you will get no where, and just from talking to them, they have said if you are not a part the association and are showing on your own, you don't have a chance!

[Rip's Girl]

I agree with you, Ellie... In fact, you read my mind. Just because someone has bred and finished dogs, does not mean that they are breeding responsibly or for the good of the breed. I've seen the Papillon breed go downhill in temperament because show breeders do everything possible to get a perfect head, perfect muzzle, perfect ear set and perfect, luxuious coat. But in their constant quest for conformational perfection, a LOT of them (not all, but a lot) have disregarded temperament.. Some have disregarded health. How is this "improving" the breed? All they want is the money and prestige that comes with breeding champion dogs.

Thankfully I got Dakota from a breeder who fits Ellie's list. She cares about her dogs and her breed, and breeds for the good of the breed, instead of breeding for the good of her kennel.

[erdog3]

You know why I can offer all those things and more on my list.
Because I screen the new owners and before I even consider them to purchase a puppy I do all the background required to ensure that this pup, will fall into the arms of some one who is instantly in love.
I also provide all the back up when things get tough, training etc. I speak with them, tell them about the peeing, the chewed shoes, etc. I ask, are you prepared to go through all this?
I know I can guarnatee their health.
In all my years of breeding Labradors I have never had one complaint or return.(touch wood) lol.
The most that ever happened was actually in Ellie's last litter, the owner accidently ran over her puppy. After much debating and checking out, to see if it was just pure carelessness or a complete accident I gave her my last Chocolate Pup for free.
Bet you don't get too many breeders especially Show ones do that.
So am I a backyard breeder? yes in a way, but then again no.
Ask yourselves, where would you sooner get a pup from, someone who claims to be a full on registered show breeder with heaps of dogs, or someone who has 1 litter about every 2 years.

[Dobified]

Rudy came with all those things, except the food. His breeder is very reputable and is head of the Doberman Pincher Club of Alberta. Jenna also came with those things even though she was a rescue.

I will start a thread about Jenna's story, it is moving.

Thanks for the info Ellie, I don't show and usually only want companion animals but I wil beware the next time I am looking for a purebred dog ( and of course it will be another dobe ! LOL! )

[Lessica Jake]

I just want one of Ellie's puppies.

Ellie, all those things you've said are what makes me wary of getting the dog I've wanted as long as I can remember. I am so worried that I'll end up with an animal that isn't the quality I'm looking for, that it will take me many years to even decide on a breeder.