Heart Murmurs in dogs

[kitan]

Kenya has been diagnosed with a heart murmur with no apprent cause. They did an ultra sound today while she was having surgery to repair the hole in her stomache when a bad c-section/spay happened two weeks ago. Can this be caused by too much anesthetic?

[rutylr]

If there is no history of heart testing then it could have come from anyone of or two dogs in her pedigree.
http://www.kismet.net/cmtc/health/articles/murmurs.htm
all puppies from this dog should be spayed/neuter as the might not have a heart problem they could be carriers.

[kitan]

Her heart HAS BEEN TESTED. An ultra sound was preformed and there is no indication of any heart murmur to be found. The heart murmur is only evident while under sedation. She has been under sedation 3 times prior with no indication of a problem. She was overdosed with propofol about two weeks ago and after reading their paperwork on the drug I am wondering if it was induced by too much dope. She is already spayed as mentioned in the origional post. She lost all puppies due to the overdose.

[kitan]

her line is very well documented and tested. I wouldn't buy a dog with intent to breed without requiring the line to be solid. This isn't a breeding issue. I am fully aware of the need for health testing for gentic and other issues. This isn't a backyard breeding problem. This is a well thought out process that has been on going for five years. I carefully selected my dogs for importation to Canada to help fix some of the problems experienced here due to improper breeding. I didn't make a foolish investment as I offered 100% guarantee on all pups from me. I stand behind my dogs 100% and couldn't do so with out all pre-cautions taken.

[rutylr]

I have read up on heart problems for a while,and if there is an issue it,will sometimes not show up until the dogs is older.
They may be born with it and it just might show up.
All the testing in the world is never gonna be 100% guaranteeable as there are so many dogs in the passed who were not tested..
Sorry to hear about the pups.did not read the thread on them.

[kitan]

I am trying to get across that she has had an ultra sound with no cause for the murmur. No valves are damaged, the heart is normal with no reason for the murmur to be present and all other signs point to no defects with the heart. The heat is of normal size and with normal function. I read your post rutylr and went to the links you had posted and thank you for the info by the way. However, it says that murmurs are heart valve issues or at least what I come to understand and please feel free to set me straight on this subject. Kenya has no damage to any of her heart. The vet went over her to find the cause just so it was documented. She is really surprised how clean it came up. I would like to know if murmurs can be induced by drug overdose.


I guess what my post should have read was 'Signs of propofol overdose in dogs'. The heart murmur is just a mystery considering it has popped up over the last 14days and could be suspect to the large amounts that were apprently used on my dog. Coupled with constapation for 5 days, diarriah for another 4days, excessive shedding and I do mean excessive shedding, shakes for 48hours, wheezing, convulstions in the pups, inability to focus, completely unresponsive for about 36 hours, no appitite for 7days was being forced fed, lack of muscle control, twitching, vomiting. This was all of them from mum to every pup. Kenya never had seizures like the pups but she had sever muscle twitching. There is treatment for it and b/c vet was covering her butt we never got to the point until it was too late with the new vet.

[mara]

I only work with humans, but I don't believe a murmer can be caused by a drug overdose. Usual causes are damage to the heart, an infection of the heart, an aging heart or just a normal occurance without any untoward effects. I guess the stress of the delivery on her heart could have caused it. The puzzling thing is the normal cardiac ultrasound. Valve damage should have shown blood flowing through the valves during the part of the cycle that the valves should have been closed......the time when the chambers are supposed to be filling. Has the murmer been detected on one examination only? Humans can have transient murmers.
I wonder if the previous vet "missed" the murmer and she has had it all along. A murmer can that you hear with a stethescope can just be the result of the flaps of the valve closing at very slightly different times. (milli-seconds) This is a very common occurance in teenaged children.....they usually have normal heart sounds by the time they are adults.
I wish I had an explanation but it really is a puzzle.

[weezyNollie]

Are you sure it's a murmur? A murmur isn't something that you can really visualize, most hear with a stethoscope or view with echocardiogram. If the dog was under anesthesia and something heart related was recognized, I would assume it was some sort of arrythmia (or irregular EKG/heartbeat). That's typically what is monitored. In that case, those can be induced with certain drugs.

[mara]

The ultrasound that was done would have picked up a valve leak....that would have explained the murmer. Of course you can't see a murmer!!

[kitan]

While living in the USA I had an awesome vet. He was probably the top bulldog type dogs in his part of the world. He went over Kenya with a fine tooth comb before i bred her the first litter. Hips and eyes were done ect. He had her under twice. Once for AI and the other for delivery of 8pups with NO problems. They were eating when I went in to pick them up after waiting 45min. She delivered them on the 57day with natural start of labour. There has been no signs of the murmur than, the other vet could have missed it yes. She was in for a yearly and x-ray which she was under for than too, when she went through a hystrical preg. My regular vet has had some new vets come in. I don't like them working on kenya at all. They caused an incident with a yearling I have due to inexperience and unless the big guy works on Kenya I won't take her there. He didn't detect a heart murmur than. Its only present using a stethoscope when she's under deep and at no other time.

Something physical must happen to the heart to produce the sounds of a murmur? Without damage of some sort a murmur wouldn't appear or would it? A visual look at the heart must show something? I am talking in general and not to my problem. I am just trying to disiphere all the information I have been reading on the subject is all.

Again, thank you for all the help