Submissive Urination

[drafts]

Hello
I am new ( I also post on the horse page).

I am having a serious su problem with my dog. I will try to make a long story short.....
I brought her home when she was old enough to be away from her mom. I had an adult male St. Bernard named Harley. Tonka (the pup) adjusted well, and got along great with
harley. When she was one year old, Harley got bloat and was gone for a few days for surgery and recovery.
I know it is my fault, but she is not real well socialized. Whenever company would come over, she would tinkle.
About October 26, 2004, Harley got real sick, and we rushed him to the vet. After being under intense supervision and medication, for 3 days, we brought him home, knowing his chances were not good, and there was nothing else that could be done, but wait and see. The following day we had to take him back and have him euthanized. Big stresser on our now two year old Tonka, she loved him dearly.
About 6 weeks later, we sold our house and moved, big stressor #2. Now she urinates everytime I come home from a long absence ( 9 hr day at work). She does not urinate around my boyfriend at all.
She is crated for a max of 7 hours a day, if left out of her crate she is very destructive.
I have never hit or beat her, but when I walk in the door from work, she visibly quivers, and p.ees.

I am at my wits end, and could use some help!
J

[Dax]

It sounds like she is so excited when she sees you that she can't control herself. I have to ask how you greet her. Do you ignore her and go about your business or do you greet her?

I would try to completely ignore her. Go about your business like she doesn't exist. After about 5 to 15 minutes, then calmly greet her. (on tiled floor if possible). Look at what your boyfriend is telling her with his body langueage. Try to mimic and see if it helps.

[Moo]

I think this is more excitement pee, than submissive pee. Does your boyfriend play alot with her, have fun? If not, that would be why she doesn't pee for him. (lol). What exactly do you do when she pees? And where's the tail? If it's down, it's submissive, if it's up, it's wagging excitement, I suspect excitement.

Make comings and goings casual. When you come home, ignore her at first, walk around a bit, and talk to her later when she's down some 5 minutes or so.

And is the 7 hours a day... 7 consecutive hours or periodic?

[drafts]

It is submissive, tail is down, she quivers like she knows she is about to do something wrong.
I ignore her completely for the first 15 mins or so, then calmly greet her, did not help. BF has to put her outside before I get home, so at least she pees out there when she sees me.
Crate is 7 hours consecutive. She has already been outside to do her business by time I get home, so it is not that she HAS to go.
We both play fetch and ball with her.

It is really hurting my feelings, because she acts so afraid of me, and I have never given her any reason to be.

[Dobified]

She is not afraid of you, she see you as alpha - female and acts accordingly. If you watch a pack of wolves you will see this behaviour as well. She is happy to see you, it just doesn't look like it.

Ignoring her is something you have to do for days and weeks. Maybe even try to leave her in her cage and ignore her for 10-15 minutres when you come into the house, or if she is out already then just walk by her and say nothing but you have to be consistent.

This maybe something she never gets over. How old is she now ?

I agree with ignoring her and watching how your BF interacts with her , body language means a lot.

[GretaJack]

Who has been the main disciplinarian and trainer in the household? You or your BF? If it is you, obviously she does have some fear for you, which is not totally bad. But a dog should respect you more than fear you. Now, do you yell or correct her when she does this behavior? If so, stop. It will only make the situation worse and prolong correcting it. Just completely ignore what she just did. Casually clean it up. Sad and frustrating, but SU has to be handled delicately and cannot be corrected as if trying to potty train.

And the stress factors that you mentioned most likely are playing a factor in her behavior especially if she is a very sensitive dog. Most likely your other saint was a more dominant dog (I am just guessing) and the support structure for your pup. As long as Harley was around she was safe from the big bad evils of the world.

I would continue with what you have been doing and what the others have stated. Ignore her when you first come home. Ignore the unwanted behavior. And once she is behaving (no peeing) play with and pet her reassuringly. And if the situation continues and it is a great bother to you (which it would be for me) I would check into consulting a behavioralist. They might have more insight once they observe you and your dogs as to what behaviors or actions are causing fear in her.

Hope all goes well. I am positive that you should be able to get this worked out.

[Moo]

Hm, predicament, mine was always very dominant, lucky me. lol

Well, here are some things to think about... See if they would make any difference at all.

Are you wearing shoes when you greet her when you come home?
Do you greet her sitting down, or standing up?
Ar you wearing a hat, gloves, anything you wouldn't normally wear in the house that may make you more intimidating?

I would try completely ignoring her, then sitting down somewhere, so that she comes to you, as opposed to you turning around to talk to her. Mmmm... What breed is she?