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Thread: Outside tie??

  1. #11
    yes. Before, and during the tie sperm is released.

    If the breeders were experienced they would know what to do and what was going on.

    Maybe you should educate yourself more on dog breeding before you breed your dog. Read some books on dog breeding. Talk to breeders.

  2. #12
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    I have been educating myself on dog breeding for the last 3 years and have had several mentors. I never stop trying to learn about breeding. I try to learn as much as I can because you can never know enough. I have recently begun breeding so I still have alot to learn that is part of my reason for joining this forum group TO ASK QUESTIONS AND TO LEARN MORE. I had my first litter last year and hopefully this will be my second. There are breeders that have been breeding 20 or so years that still don't know everything. I just wanted to know at exactly what point during the tie that the stud releases sperm. (SIMPLE QUESTION)

    IF YOU DON'T ASK QUESTIONS YOU WILL NEVER KNOW....

    So far the some of the people here are pretty harsh and discouraging rather than helpful and encouraging (which I thought this forum was about). Not too sure if this is the type of environment I want to be a part of.

  3. #13
    Senior Dog Member kowwgurl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaxchihuahuas View Post
    I know that the sperm is ejaculated during the tie.... that was not my question. My question was is it ejaculated at the very beggining of the tie? And just because one does not know how to AI themself does not mean they have no experience breeding dogs. No need for the snappy attitude.. Apparently you just misunderstood the question.

    If he was not stuck to the female then it was not a tie simple

    it would be very painful for the female and the male to get seperated during a tie and could cause permanent damage so if they separated before he became engorged then there was no tie

  4. #14
    Member OTHG Senior Dog Member+ Dauxside's Avatar
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    As you say - If you ask questions you NEVER learn - but questions should be asked in abundance prior to breeding, not after the fact.

    This forum *is* really helpful - but all of us worry about unnecessary breeding:

    Why did you decide on the breeding - should be more than wanting puppies, should be about what the two offer each other to compliment the next generations.
    What did the two have to offer each other-not just being handy, what were the faults being bred against the qualities being bred for and what the pedigree offeres the future.
    Were both cleared for genetic health issues (not a general health check up but breed specific tests as advised by either the parent club or health organization) - a search on breed specific diseases brings up a lot of tests that should be done (including the optional tests...for the health of the next generation.)
    How many good homes have you lined up? A good breeding, of dogs with great quality to offer the breed, will already have a waiting list for upcoming litters. I'm not speaking of pet breeders btw who push out puppies for the public/friends or families I'm meaning breeders who breed *for* the *breed.*

    These are all questions we ask one another and of other breeders. There are quite a few long time breed people here. Those that breed do so carefully (most any way) with all of the tests for their breed not only done but results posted here...why, because we *do* care, and *do* support one another...probably because each of us know that if we choose to breed the question(s) about why we chose to breed and what we're doing *for* our breed are going to come up.

    You say she's bred already? How many puppies, how old are they, did you wait to see if there might come any health issues with her lines? Most good breeders wait until the first litter has matured to see what issues come up. Granted sometimes issues don't appear until the puppies are well in adulthood but one can't know for sure what one has produced until that first litter are adults.

    Almost all long time breeders know how to AI (I say almost all because I haven't met all breeders in every breed) - it's something we learn simple because of situations where it can come in handy (like say this one.) Because as with horses, if a valuable stud dog is going to have to go down a breeder is going to want to collect him before he passes.

    You say you've been educating yourself on breeding but yet you didn't even bother to set up an AI in the event a natural breeding did not occur? You don't know the mechanics of breeding (release of sperm?) As far as sperm release, well gosh that info is available on any reproduction site that's worth it's salt. I did a search and oodles came up.

    The problem is we see so many bybers come here - ask questions when they get in trouble or after the fact with no tests, no prenatal care, no general tests (brucellosis, wellness checkup, etc.) It gets a little old. All 6 of your posts have been in this thread, you attack us for not helping, and not being nice, but did you take the time to get to know the members, post about yourself, your hopes for your dogs, etc.?

    Your mentor, who knows so much, will be the one with the answers to your breeding questions...and yes as you've portrayed this person she should have known how to AI. It's an extremely simple procedure, especially with a standing bitch handy. Not fun to do, and if someone who's unawares walks in can be down right humiliating LOL
    CJ ~ and the Dauxside of the Moon Gang
    I believe in dragons, fairies, good men and other mythical beasties

  5. #15
    Senior Dog Member kowwgurl's Avatar
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    very well said Daux

  6. #16
    Member OTHG Senior Dog Member+ Dauxside's Avatar
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    You say on your website that your dogs are bred to standard ... but I don't see any conformation titles or even any event points. Ch pointed (chs in the pedigree) doesn't mean a thing - it's what the dog/bitch *now* has to offer.

    Pretty princess has *unknown* just 3 generations back, how can you breed on an unknown pedigree?
    CJ ~ and the Dauxside of the Moon Gang
    I believe in dragons, fairies, good men and other mythical beasties

  7. #17
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    I understand all of the questions you ask and I do realize that alot of people come here after they have bred their dogs and then have a million questions. I never thought about AI or even seriously looked into it until now was because I thought that the only time people do that was when the owners lived too far apart or the dogs were of different sizes (male being too short) or they didn't want to risk their dog contracting bruccellosis or other diseases. The stud owner was not my mentor and is a fairly new breeder herself. She's been breeding for 5 years.

    I chose this breeding because both dogs have great temperments, the stud has a much thicker coat than my female, he has an excellent shaped head, my females eyes are a little bigger and rounder, both dogs have more classic colored coats (which tend to do better in the show ring), both are more of the sturdier boned Chis which are better suited to everyday life, yet still small. And as I previously stated, I got to see what his offspring and grandkids looked like. He also has offspring that are showing and several held back from showing due to size.
    Homes are plentiful. I have about 30 potential owners lined up on my waiting list even though I may need none or only one. Her last litter, there were only 2 pups. One male that is living here locally and who I get updates from often (he is a year old), and one male born stillborn due to suffocation. One of the puppies will be going back to the stud owner for her daughter to show in junior showmanship, one puppy will be staying here and if there are more then they will be placed in an appropriate home.

  8. #18
    Member OTHG Senior Dog Member+ Dauxside's Avatar
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    Jax - any good mentor or someone helping you get started is going to ask those questions of you. Remember the life you bring into the world is one you are responsible for forever. I don't see your bitchs as promising as far as structure goes, if they were mine they'd be altered and I'd keep looking for a GREAT speciman, the best that I could afford...then come all the breed health tests - again something that isn't on your website as you making sure your lines are free of hereditary problems.

    For your breed those are:

    Patellar Luxation
    Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA - if you stick around you'll see it's a concern for a lot of us)
    Cryptorchidism (Undescended Testicles) (runs in bloodlines)
    Hydrocephalus
    Cystinuria
    Mitral Valve Disease
    Hemophilia

    Before ever breeding you need to know your bloodlines, front to back and sidewise - having an incomplete pedigree is not a good thing, you can't be sure of purebred, you can't be sure of health problems.

    Again, we're *not* trying to be mean - if you really want to be a great breeder there are a lot of steps that are required to get you there...and foremost is protecting the *breed* by not breeding without having as many ducks in a row as possible (the genetic tests/certifications, full pedigree with knowledge of the type/quality of each animal plus what they've thrown.)

    It's hard, and heartbreaking but knowing that one is doing what's best for the breed (and not pocketbook, making a name, fulfilling pet people's needs by producing puppies, etc.) OMG the reward in knowing you're producing the best that can be done for the breed is really amazing. Does that mean that there will never be a problem, heavens no!!! I've posted having to start over my bloodlines because my foundation bitch developed a serious health problem, I cried and threw fits but I also refunded everyone's monies and bought a litter from that bitch's daughter so all the puppies would be altered. Why? I did everything I could pre breeding - but the GSDs were my heart/world and to me, for me, that was the right and ethical thing to do for the *breed.*
    Last edited by Dauxside; 07-07-2008 at 09:06 PM.
    CJ ~ and the Dauxside of the Moon Gang
    I believe in dragons, fairies, good men and other mythical beasties

  9. #19
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    Thank you Dauxside for your mannerable constructive criticism. I really appreciate it. I will strongly take your suggestions into consideration and keep them in mind.

  10. #20
    Member OTHG Senior Dog Member+ Dauxside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaxchihuahuas View Post
    Thank you Dauxside for your mannerable constructive criticism. I really appreciate it. I will strongly take your suggestions into consideration and keep them in mind.
    I am going to frame your reply as usually I'm the one getting thwacked with a stick for being a meanie.

    Honestly, though we may seem to come on strong it really is because we *do* care about the animals as a whole. Most of us are thrilled with each other's breeds, we worry, we care, we cry...and we do expect each of our breeders to do the right thing for the *breed.*

    We're not mean, we're just passionate.
    CJ ~ and the Dauxside of the Moon Gang
    I believe in dragons, fairies, good men and other mythical beasties

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