Are shelters at fault, or forever free of blame?

[assortedagility]

Are shelters ever at fault for the killing they commit with their own hands? Is the blame solely to be placed on the public?

"Despite animal control's dysfunction and overkill, animal activists continue to ignore and apologize for the shelter's failures by blaming the public, rather than those who are directly responsible: the very staff and administrators who fail every time they inject an animal with an overdose of barbiturates in the face of alternatives like foster care, offsite adoptions, working with rescue groups, or TNR."
-nathan j winograd

[bella6]

Theese kill shelters need to go, but I think there should be a strongly inforced law all dog must be fixed,if they are full breed(iknow alot of people will not like this keep in mind i have 3 full blooded unwanted dogs i took in) the breeders should be limited, and monitored very close, its not only the shelters its very selfish people! there are to many unwanted dogs and cats in this world, people should be held responsible and when they are caught dumping them stiff penaltys should apply! if you get a dog and it starts to have behaviour problems or potty in house etc people just get rid of them!If your not willing to see it all the way trough dont get the dog! then we wont have kill shelters. Thats just my opinon from someone who rescues the unwanted

[RoughCollies]

Spay Neuter laws won't help because the responsible people doing it right are the only people who will listen to the laws. It's near impossible to enforce. The only result will be that BYB'ers and Puppy millers will have less competition with good breeders being put out of business.

The ONLY solution to the problem, I think is education and the demise of puppy mills somehow. That will significantly help the number of dogs going out from pet stores and in doing so stop many impulse buys. Educating the prospective buyers of BYB'ers and adopting a dog will help the rest. It'll never be solved, but can be managed better with those things in place.

[JTP]

Originally Posted by RoughCollies

Spay Neuter laws won't help because the responsible people doing it right are the only people who will listen to the laws. It's near impossible to enforce. The only result will be that BYB'ers and Puppy millers will have less competition with good breeders being put out of business.

The ONLY solution to the problem, I think is education and the demise of puppy mills somehow. That will significantly help the number of dogs going out from pet stores and in doing so stop many impulse buys. Educating the prospective buyers of BYB'ers and adopting a dog will help the rest. It'll never be solved, but can be managed better with those things in place.

Spay & Neuter Educatrion has helped, and that is why many shelter have trouble getting dogs without bringing them in from other areas, and creating networks.
Read up on that hidden little fact.

Shelters are there to clean up the messes other people make, and there is no way they can save them all.
If people cared about their pets, then the animals would not be in the shelter.
If the shelters PTS some, or a lot of animals, so be it, Somebody has to do it, because cowardly owners do not live up to their responsibilities.
Shelters just do the dirty work other people are too chicken hearted to do.

[assortedagility]

If an animal is put into your care, albeit by an irresponsible owner, do you just kill it? Or do you do your best to retrain it, rehabilitate it, and either keep it or find it a good home? The majority of shelters just kill it, hardly giving it a chance.

Mandatory spay/neuter laws are not the solution. Limitations on breeding is not the solution. Mandatory spay/neuter laws punish responsible owners. Those who do not comply to the law, aren't going to start magically complying when a new, stricter law is put into place. Puppy millers will still mass produce, accidental litters will still happen, and smaller scale BYBs will still want to breed their dogs for whatever reason.

"the three most successful communities in the nation with the highest percentage of animals going home alive - San Francisco, Tompkins County and Charlottesville, Virginia - have no mandatory spay/neuter laws"

The answer lies in low cost spay/neuter clinics, humane education, a more "people friendly" rescue group environment(lets face it, no one likes high horsed, holier than thou rescue groups or animal activists), and simply shelters doing better and actually working to lessen the killing (and always spay/neuter animals before they leave in the arms of anyone).

When an animal is placed into your care, it is then your responsibility. It is no longer that other person's responsibility, no matter how neglectful or irresponsible they were. Those dogs, in every way, are now in the care of that shelter. And that shelter has the responsibility to do best by the dogs, rather than to continue to kill unscrupously and blame it on the public.

I know first hand how irresponsible people are. I see it with my own eyes. But my experience has also shown me that some people do their best to be responsible, but just may not be fully educated. Others truly are responsible. I think there is a large bias that we 'educated' pet owners have against the public in general. And I think it is wrong and far from beneficial. Just as the pit bull is percieved to be vicious for the actions of a few, we whom should know better, have percieved the public to be lazy, irresponsible, heartless morons based on the actions of a few. The public is who shelters rely on to come in, adopt, and save animals lives, but it is the public that faces the condemnation, hate, and blame. That doesn't seem beneficial.

I used to use the "cleaning up" phrase too. I truly made myself believe it. And to a certain extent, for truly terminally ill, suffering, unadoptable animals, that most certainly can be true. But it is over used. It is used as an excuse for shelter workers to be lazy and irresponsible themselves, as horrible and sad as that sounds. It is an excuse we make to make ourselves feel less guilty, and we truly make ourselves believe it.

There are more that shelters can be doing. Much more. But they stand behind their excuses and blame the public. They shift the responsibility of the dirty work that they do from their hands, to the entire public in general.

If puppy millers can still be breeding and making a profit, people are stilll buying. For all those puppies that puppy millers can make a profit of off, that must mean there is still a home out there. Every single dog could probably never be saved. There will always be some lost.. but why in the world are not more shelters striving for 80% adoption rate, rather than 20%, 30% or 40% while the rest are killed?

They may have the burden to 'clean up' irresponsible, uneducated, or the unfortunate's mess, but they have the responsible to truly clean up, rather than to destroy. And there ARE ways. It is not hopeless. Not every animal, but more. Shelters, especiallly county humane societies, need to be actively seeking out and setting up low cost spay/neuter clinics. Every county should have one. Volunteers need to be appreciated and used to the shelter's advantage. Shelters need to work more openly with rescues. Foster care programs to rehabilitate those that can't stay in a shelter environment. Utilizing the internet and media to get yourself out there. Compete with the puppy millers! Puppy millers at flea markets? Go set up a booth directly next to theirs and give people an option - save a life, or contribue to neglect, abuse, irresponsible breeding, or millions of animals being killed in shelters every year. Although the public does not have good standing wiht most shelters and educated animal owners, truth be told is that a great deal of them would make the right choice. Education, my friends.

[Bosley Slave]

At our shelter I blame them for not working more with rescues and promoting fostering in our county. The management has been there too long and, IMO, has become burned out and stagnant. However, it is the public's issue that so many animals are at shelters. The case in point, they euth a litter of pit pups even though they had a temp foster and myself looking into rescue, they refused the foster (great foster) due to not wanting us to become emotionally involved!!!! IDIOTS

[JTP]

Nothing stops anybody from setting up their own no kill shelter.
I certainly have a few qualms with shelters, and some of their policies about who gets PTS, but the guns, and butter theory applies with a budget, so they have to make decisions on which ones live, and which ones do not.

Not my place to maliciously second guess, and be mad at them for making tough decisions, to clean up the original owners messes.
That have a limited Amount of funds, and can't save them all

[assortedagility]

Originally Posted by Bosley Slave

At our shelter I blame them for not working more with rescues and promoting fostering in our county. The management has been there too long and, IMO, has become burned out and stagnant. However, it is the public's issue that so many animals are at shelters. The case in point, they euth a litter of pit pups even though they had a temp foster and myself looking into rescue, they refused the foster (great foster) due to not wanting us to become emotionally involved!!!! IDIOTS

Management will make or break a shelter. Too often the management runs shelters into the ground with poor ethics and inability to strive to save animals' lives.

Many shelters, even "bad" ones, have people working or volunteering that are absolutely wonderful. They truly are,and I applaud these people. However, even these people are limited by the shelter if it is not acting responsibly.

It is clear that there are shelters that refuse to work with rescue groups, refuse to set up foster care, despite responsible people being willing to help, and simply refuse to lessen the killing. that would require too much work.

*sigh* Shelters have a duty. Yes, they have a large burden due to many irresonsible puppy millers, breeders and owners.. but they also have a responsibility to get animals out of the shelter alive.

[SalemWitchChild]

All through this thread I see you wanting to put the blame on the shelters. And yes they have a duty to do all they can within reason to get animals out alive. However I think your demanding a miracle and getting mad when there's none forthcoming.

The simple matter is that there is too many animals coming in daily. And not enough going out.

Take my local shelter for instance. Once a week I get an email with new animals entering the shelter. Most of the time that average is about 20 per week. Some of them pregant.

We are a small town. There is no way they can adopt all those animals. The ones that can be accepted by rescues are sent away. They do have an off site adoption center. They do fundraisers, foster care, etc.. They do their best for a small town shelter. Thats all they can do. And in the end its never enough.

[JTP]

Originally Posted by assortedagility

Management will make or break a shelter. Too often the management runs shelters into the ground with poor ethics and inability to strive to save animals' lives.

Many shelters, even "bad" ones, have people working or volunteering that are absolutely wonderful. They truly are,and I applaud these people. However, even these people are limited by the shelter if it is not acting responsibly.

It is clear that there are shelters that refuse to work with rescue groups, refuse to set up foster care, despite responsible people being willing to help, and simply refuse to lessen the killing. that would require too much work.

*sigh* Shelters have a duty. Yes, they have a large burden due to many irresonsible puppy millers, breeders and owners.. but they also have a responsibility to get animals out of the shelter alive.

AA,
Obviously you are upset with a certain shelter that you had a disagreement with.
Your disagreement does not mitigate the good work that shelter does.
Running a shelter is tough work, and requires decisions to be made that some people may not like, and may not understand.
There are many things that go into running a shelter that affect how many live, and how many die.
How many other dogs can be saved with a dollar saved buy PTSing one problem dog,
Managers have to be pragmatic, and save the ones they can, and that may not be all of them.

Money runs shelters, and there is onkly so much money.