Messing Crate

[kwblue]

Hello all,

I came across this forum and it seemed to be the only place where this question was being asked... I didn't find a solution, so thought I would ask it again in hopes that someone out there might have come across the same thing.

I have a 1 1/2 year old shepherd. She came from a rescue and was surrendered based upon a couple of things... The significant one here is messing her crate.

Even though we have had her on a routine of morning potty / noon potty / evening potty / before bedtime potty, she continues to mess her crate. We have significantly reduced the size of her crate to make sure that she does not have enough room to both mess and lay down and she still messes. She goes to the bathroom, but holds part of it in. It is easy to tell that she is doing it 'cause we watch her carefully when going potty. She takes as long as she wants as well to go potty (at least #2 - #1 comes fast, usually).

Since she messes her crate, she decides most of the time to 'get rid of the evidence.' However, there are times when she leaves it and other times when she traipses through it frantically splattering it inside and outside of her crate (wire crate).

Today, I am testing a routine of leaving her outside in her designated 'potty area' until she eliminates. It has now been 6 1/4 hours since she has 'partially' eliminated.... 6 1/4 hours since she ate a small portion (1 cup of food), and 4 hourse since I put her in the area to eliminate.

I don't know what to even do about it anymore. How can I solve the problem if she refuses to go? Very difficult to say 'gooooooooooood girl!!!!!' if there is nothing to commend.

Thanks in advance for the help

Andy

[Darth_Vaders_Mom]

Do you have something in there for her to lay on? Usually, they won't go in the "Den". Especially if they are comfortable.

It sounds if you are doing everything right! You don't want the crate too big. Taking her out on a regular basis. Hmmmmm. Hopefully someone else can give you some advice here also.

Good luck with her! And hang in there!!!! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Bow Wow Beds

[erdog3]

Hard to help without knowing a few more things.
What is her diet?
Sounds like constipation then diarrhoea.
Is she eating her poop, many dogs do it, not to hide evidence, they just do it.
Do you take her for walks?
How long is she crated per day?
Have you wormed?

[kwblue]

More info...

She has been to the vet and has no health-related issues. She has been de-wormed.

We used to give her something to lay on, but she messed them and it gets too expensive. We began putting carpeting in there because it is about the cheapest material we could find since we were replacing it at least once a week. Now, there is nothing in there at all. Just the plastic tray.

Her diet is consistant. We typically give her 2-3 cups in the morning and at 5:00pm. Her schedule:

5:30 AM Potty
5:35 AM Feeding
7:45 AM Potty
8:00 AM Crate
12:00 PM Potty / Play Time
1:00 PM Crate
5:00 PM Potty
5:05 PM Feeding
5:30 PM Play Time
8:00 PM Potty
10:30 PM Potty / Bedtime

She only eats her poop when in the kennel, never outside. She is crated at most 8 hours per day. I don't think she is constipated because she physically 'cuts off' the pooping to hold some in. It is very easy to tell that she is doing this. Her food is IAMS, but I don't think that is the problem.

Anyway..... anything else to know?

Thanks!!

[erdog3]

My dogs will do at least 2 poops a day, sometimes three. What you will have to do is set up a new routine, revolved around HER poop times, try a good run/ball game first thing in the am. she should poop. Give her a bone to chew on in the crate, a nice marrow one, for boredom, she could be eating her poop because of that.
Place some newspaper in one corner of the crate, that is for poops, put a bit of poop on it so she knows, give her an old towel, or old piece of sheet to lay on.
Now your challenge, watch her for a day or two, note the times and situations which cause her to poop in the crate Ie: if your there-no poo, stay with the routine you have at the moment, and you will sure see where it's going wrong.
Also, boredom is the cause of a lot of undesired behaviour in our animal buddies.
hope it helps!!!

[kwblue]

OK....

Here is the problem. We cannot revolve our lives around her poop schedule because she poops anywhere from 9:30am to 11:30am. We both have to work during that time. The only reason she is pooping during that time is because she refuses to poop outside when she has to. She plays hard with our other dog in the morning, so should definitely have to poop 1 1/2 - 2 hours after eating / playing.

As far as paper in the kennel, I have heard from all the experts that I have talked to thus far, that this is a very bad idea. I do not want to confuse her that it is ok to go in the house. She is 1 year 3 months old and is old enough to be able to hold it more than 4 hours at a time. It is not that we are not giving her enough time to get the job done..

I try to watch her to find out when / why, but she only does this about once a week at the most so there is no way to tell. We don't change OUR schedule with her, so I am not sure why she decides that she has to change hers.

Anyway, hope that gives more help.

Thanks in advance!

Andrew Mueller

[erdog3]

I realize the newspaper is not something that is recommended, and under normal circumstances don't advise it, but when it comes between poo and wee on your best carpet, and cleaning up over a multitude of areas sometimes it is far easier to go with the paper than not.
I look upon it as a whole new retraining exercise, not a permanent solution. Also Im not familiar with the term "crate", I assumed it was one of those that you use to keep your dog confined in when in the car at shows etc., obviously it must be larger. I am trying very hard to help you, give ideas, but i sense some anger behind your last reply, I understand that the prob. you have can be frustrating, but don't give up. Also sometimes you just will not be able to stop a bad habit and have to go with what suits your situation to make it easier. So if it paper in the corner, so be it, if she doesn't do it all the time, and while you are home you may not have any other way around it, other than to talk with the vets or an expert, I am only someone on the forum just like you, just that I have been breeding for 15 years, kept many of my pups, and bought in older dogs with the same prob. so I can only give advise on what I have done myself to try to fix it.
If you still want more ideas write back, maybe someone else may have some ideas to help here!!!

[kwblue]

No.... Definitely no anger. Just expressing our schedules is all. I know there will be no easy answer, but we just don't have any vacation time to give up in order to watch her continuously. I happened to be 'in the office (my house)' today and was watching her (crated / kenneled) through a web camera (@ 11:00 AM) and she was taking a dump on a bedsheet that I gave her to lay on (my mistake). I made it down there in time to reprimand her and take her outside. I caught her in the middle of it, so she still had to go outside. I hope that helps, but I think she does not want to mess her crate so I doubt it will have helped. She went to the bathroom in the morning, so should not have had to go that badly only 3 hours later.

Any advice is ALWAYS appreciated.

[erdog3]

Excellent idea, the web cam, Yes if you catch them in the middle of it and reprimand, they understand what your telling them off for, tell me what is the crate exactly. And I'm glad your not angry, I thought you had got upset with me.

[erdog3]

Also, I forgot another thought, she is an adult dog now and can be fed once a day, try cutting out the morning feed, then she'll have nothing to poop out, cause if you fed her this morning then that would have been what came out at 11.